Over/Under With Double Trigger?

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  • Overwatch326

    Active Member
    Aug 13, 2016
    365
    Hey folks, got another one for you.

    Little bit of background: My Dad's got a L.C. Smith 16 Gauge side-by-side that he's had since he was a kid; it shoots great, but I find it's a bit slower to reload for me than an over/under. But ultimately, the best thing about his 16 is the double trigger. I love being able to go both barrels, or just one immediately after the other without having to toggle-select a barrel or anything.

    So! My question is (TLDR): Anyone know of a decent entry-level priced over/under with a double trigger? I know CZ used to put out the Mallard, but they discontinued it back in 2015. Other than that, I haven't been able to find much of anything, and they must've either not sold any of the things, or the Mallard's just that good that no one's selling. Any ideas or leads would be appreciated!
     

    Aamdskeetshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 19, 2013
    1,744
    Moco
    When shooting an o/u with a single trigger all you do is pull the trigger twice. You don’t have to fool with the selector or safety between shots. The selector is only to choose which barrel shoots first. If it’s an automatic safety it will engage every time you open the gun. A manual safety will stay off until you set it to safe. Hunting guns will be more apt to have auto safeties and target guns will have manual safeties. Target guns are not loaded until it’s the shooters turn to shoot. No need for a safety. In other words, I don’t understand your reasoning for wanting a double trigger o/u. No modern reputable manufacturer makes a double trigger o/u. Baikal is not a reputable manufacturer by the way.
     

    Overwatch326

    Active Member
    Aug 13, 2016
    365
    When shooting an o/u with a single trigger all you do is pull the trigger twice. You don’t have to fool with the selector or safety between shots. The selector is only to choose which barrel shoots first. If it’s an automatic safety it will engage every time you open the gun. A manual safety will stay off until you set it to safe. Hunting guns will be more apt to have auto safeties and target guns will have manual safeties. Target guns are not loaded until it’s the shooters turn to shoot. No need for a safety. In other words, I don’t understand your reasoning for wanting a double trigger o/u. No modern reputable manufacturer makes a double trigger o/u. Baikal is not a reputable manufacturer by the way.

    While I admit my experience with over/under shotguns is limited, I understand the basic function of a single trigger over/under.

    I prefer the double trigger for two reasons, and perhaps I'm naive, but:

    1. The ability to select which barrel I'm firing from, without the use of any sort of toggle. I have two triggers, and I know to which barrel each is assigned. As I understand it, the process of firing with a double trigger is two-step, as opposed to three-step with a single trigger. With the double setup, I have only to disengage the safety, and then pull the trigger I want. With a single, from what you've told me, I have to plan ahead by selecting which barrel, then disengage the safety, then pull the trigger--or, without forethought, disengage the safety, and pull the trigger twice. Either way, from what you've explained, three steps versus two. I imagine the single trigger lends itself very well to clay shooting and the like in your experience, but that's not the context in which I'm looking for this type of over/under, although I am interested.

    2. The ability to fire both barrels simultaneously. From what I understand from your explanation, this isn't possible with a single trigger, but would instead require two sequential rapid pulls of the trigger. While arguably reckless and inadvisable, I'd rather have that option than not. And it is pretty dang fun to do.

    As for their manufacture, as I pointed out, CZ produced the double trigger Mallard up until 2015, so... there are modern forms of the double trigger, but it does appear to be falling out of favor; Stoeger also produces several--all of which are side by side, however. I think it's safe to say both of those manufacturers are plenty reputable, wouldn't you? As for Baikal, they wouldn't be my first pick, personally--although their combo 7.62x54r/12 Gauge rifle/shotguns are intriguing--but I do question your claim that they are not a reputable manufacturer. Can you back that up for me; I've never handled one of theirs, but footage I've seen seems normal enough.
     

    Aamdskeetshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 19, 2013
    1,744
    Moco
    While I admit my experience with over/under shotguns is limited, I understand the basic function of a single trigger over/under.



    I prefer the double trigger for two reasons, and perhaps I'm naive, but:



    1. The ability to select which barrel I'm firing from, without the use of any sort of toggle. I have two triggers, and I know to which barrel each is assigned. As I understand it, the process of firing with a double trigger is two-step, as opposed to three-step with a single trigger. With the double setup, I have only to disengage the safety, and then pull the trigger I want. With a single, from what you've told me, I have to plan ahead by selecting which barrel, then disengage the safety, then pull the trigger--or, without forethought, disengage the safety, and pull the trigger twice. Either way, from what you've explained, three steps versus two. I imagine the single trigger lends itself very well to clay shooting and the like in your experience, but that's not the context in which I'm looking for this type of over/under, although I am interested.



    2. The ability to fire both barrels simultaneously. From what I understand from your explanation, this isn't possible with a single trigger, but would instead require two sequential rapid pulls of the trigger. While arguably reckless and inadvisable, I'd rather have that option than not. And it is pretty dang fun to do.



    As for their manufacture, as I pointed out, CZ produced the double trigger Mallard up until 2015, so... there are modern forms of the double trigger, but it does appear to be falling out of favor; Stoeger also produces several--all of which are side by side, however. I think it's safe to say both of those manufacturers are plenty reputable, wouldn't you? As for Baikal, they wouldn't be my first pick, personally--although their combo 7.62x54r/12 Gauge rifle/shotguns are intriguing--but I do question your claim that they are not a reputable manufacturer. Can you back that up for me; I've never handled one of theirs, but footage I've seen seems normal enough.


    1. In a hunting situation, an argument could be made that a double trigger could be a benefit.

    2. I’ve never heard of anyone firing both barrels on purpose.

    3. 35+ years of watching people buy Baikals and Stoegers.

    Good luck with whichever gun you decide to buy.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Personally, I think the things a double trigger had a slight edge with, are angels dancing on the head of a pin.

    Interesting, but don't really matter in real life.

    99.99% of of the shots I have taken, the lower barrel is fired first. Mainly do to recoil control. Lower barrel has less muzzle flip.

    And typically, the lower barrel has looser choke, so first shot to closer target, second to further away. In clays, you can swap chokes if you want. In hunting, most times the second shot will be further away.

    But again, if doing driven birds, so they keep getting closer, swap chokes.

    I can see no reason to fire both barrels at once, except to play.
     

    kalister1

    R.I.P.
    May 16, 2008
    4,814
    Pasadena Maryland
    The Over under shotguns I have fired: the safety is on SAFE when to the rear. To disengage the safety and fire you push forward and over Left or right depending on which barrel you want to shoot. The push forward and over is one action. You cannot disengage the safety without selecting a barrel.
     

    Mack C-85

    R.I.P.
    Jan 22, 2014
    6,522
    Littlestown, PA
    OK guys, I'll throw the safety thing out there 'cause I don't know and would never intentionally do it, but....... Would the increased pressure from both shells igniting at the same time cause pressure issues within the receiver/chambers????
     

    Overwatch326

    Active Member
    Aug 13, 2016
    365
    OK guys, I'll throw the safety thing out there 'cause I don't know and would never intentionally do it, but....... Would the increased pressure from both shells igniting at the same time cause pressure issues within the receiver/chambers????

    Potentially, yeah. I've only ever done it once, just for the heck of it. The felt recoil's not particularly more significant, but I imagine it would eventually affect the receiver and the barrel linkage. I can't think of a situation where I would feel I needed to, or anything, but it's cool to know you have that capability.

    And for those who may be concerned: Yes, I did this with permission from and under the supervision of a RSO.

    But yeah, Mack, probably not something you want to do with any frequency.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Not chamber pressure issues.

    As each chamber can handle the pressure alone. And the area between them would be pushed from both sides.

    But it would not be good for the gun, as it would increase the stress on the break open locking mechanism.
     

    Aamdskeetshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 19, 2013
    1,744
    Moco
    Not chamber pressure issues.

    As each chamber can handle the pressure alone. And the area between them would be pushed from both sides.

    But it would not be good for the gun, as it would increase the stress on the break open locking mechanism.

    I would also be concerned about splitting the stock. I’ve seen stocks split without shooting two shells at a time.
     

    Cochise

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 5, 2008
    1,383
    Rockville
    single triggers are fine for clays games where you can predict your targets over a proscribed course.
    Double triggers give you an instant choice of either barrel & choke.
    There is no selective single trigger where you can efficiently change barrels with a bird in the air.
    Double triggers are found on both the lowest quality and the highest quality game guns - from Biakal and Spanish garbage at the low end to Purdey and Merkel at the high end
    On many guns the single trigger is also prone to break or malfunction (not an issue with high quality guns)
    There is no reason to fire both barrels at once, it wont hurt the barrels or action but isn't good for the wood.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    There is no selective single trigger where you can efficiently change barrels with a bird in the air.

    Why not? How hard is it to move the selector left or right?

    More than picking the trigger and moving your trigger finger?
     

    STeveZ

    Thank you, Abelard
    Sep 22, 2011
    779
    Aberdeen, MD
    Why not? How hard is it to move the selector left or right? More than picking the trigger and moving your trigger finger?

    If you want to select your barrel in a hunting situation you most likely want to switch to the second, tighter barrel to shoot at a more distant target. So the bird flushes, you have to collect your wits, determine that the shot is too far for your first, more open choked barrel, flip off the safety, then operate the barrel selector, which is likely a fiddly operation and finally take your shot at a distant, going away target. All things considered, an unlikely scenario. I've remedied the situation by simply discharging barrel 1 to get to barrel 2.

    As far as firing both barrels, I could foresee the possibility of stock damage, the probability of your back finger getting skinned up by the front trigger and the certainty of uncomfortable recoil.

    If the OP can find a bargain on a Beretta 686 Cole Gunsmiths will convert it to double triggers for $350.
     

    kalister1

    R.I.P.
    May 16, 2008
    4,814
    Pasadena Maryland
    My safety is the barrel selector.
    With the safety in the SAFE position (To the rear) when you want to fire the gun you move it forward and slightly to one side or the other to select the barrel you want to fire first. Are there over under's with 2 separate controls?
     

    STeveZ

    Thank you, Abelard
    Sep 22, 2011
    779
    Aberdeen, MD
    My safety is the barrel selector.
    With the safety in the SAFE position (To the rear) when you want to fire the gun you move it forward and slightly to one side or the other to select the barrel you want to fire first. Are there over under's with 2 separate controls?

    Beretta's have a separate (stiff) switch on the safety.

    det.jpg


    Some have a button on the side of the trigger.

    20180107195659-9877.jpg


    The toggle type selector you describe is found on Brownings and Rugers (and others I'm sure).
    They make sense in theory but can be stiff and hard to select.
    Regardless they are slower to operate than reaching for the back trigger.

    I'm not anti-SST, most of my doubles have them. I'm just coming around to the value of double triggers for real world bird hunting.
     

    sxs

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2009
    3,378
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    If you want to select your barrel in a hunting situation you most likely want to switch to the second, tighter barrel to shoot at a more distant target. So the bird flushes, you have to collect your wits, determine that the shot is too far for your first, more open choked barrel, flip off the safety, then operate the barrel selector, which is likely a fiddly operation and finally take your shot at a distant, going away target. All things considered, an unlikely scenario. I've remedied the situation by simply discharging barrel 1 to get to barrel 2.

    As far as firing both barrels, I could foresee the possibility of stock damage, the probability of your back finger getting skinned up by the front trigger and the certainty of uncomfortable recoil.

    If the OP can find a bargain on a Beretta 686 Cole Gunsmiths will convert it to double triggers for $350.

    Years ago I liked the double trigger arrangement on sxs's just for the reasons the OP stated (well except for the idea of shooting both barrels at once). Old sxs's commonly have double triggers and the sxs I first learned to shoot had twin triggers. My O/Us all have single triggers. On the one I hunt most with, my hunting grade Citori, it's no problem at all to swap barrels to shoot the tighter choke first when the selector is on the tang with the safety.. .which I almost always use until my target is fully acquired. All I have to do is slide the selector to the side before taking the safety off. Pretty quick with only some practicing.
     

    Overwatch326

    Active Member
    Aug 13, 2016
    365
    Well, I managed to find one; picked up a Marlin Model 90 O/U with a double trigger off of Proxibid, and I've gotta say, I'm impressed. I wasn't even aware until recently that Marlin ever made shotguns, but this thing's a beauty. Can't wait to get it out to AGC for some Skeet.
     

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