WV Property-Search thread:

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  • tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Thank you for the information. I have been dreaming of buying land in a bordering state for years now. Trying to convince a buddy to go 50/50 on something for camping/shooting.

    If you do go that route (and many people do), make sure to draw up a legal contract to determine what happens if someone wants out or can't pay. Things like making sure you get the right of first refusal for their half should they want to sell or bow out, how to go about finding another partner should they not be able to pay, how to handle a potential bankruptcy, etc. are all important when going in on a property with someone else. Most of the multi-party land ownerships that I've seen are set up as LLCs or LLPs to protect all investors should things go sideways.
     

    budman93

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 1, 2013
    5,267
    Frederick County
    Are you thinking of the Eastern Panhandle? I see you're in Frederick and am assuming you'd still work in MD but live in WV?

    I work from home so i just need internet. My wife would probably move from working at the hospital in rockville and go to one close by hopefully. But yes we are thinking about the eastern areas near MD.
     

    Sampson

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 24, 2013
    1,638
    White Marsh
    No problem. If you're near retirement age and looking to retire, PA has WV currently beat on income tax for retirement accounts and pensions (not taxed in PA, taxed in WV, but nothing horrible). The thing to compare between the two is the true cost of living. Many areas of PA have massive township taxes that most folks don't realize are pretty high until they buy. My in-laws found this out. They are from NJ and wanted to move back to that region, but with NJ taxes being what they are, and MD taxing pensions/retirement income, they decided to buy outside of Philly in Thorndale Twp, PA. Turns out that they could have actually bought here (closer to their daughter but still within a 4hr drive of their family in NJ) for less overall given the township tax situation.

    That said, WV is exploring ways to get rid of personal income tax completely. The makeup in revenue would come from an increase of 1.5% for sales tax (would become 7.5%, just a penny-and-a-half more than current per dollar) a tax on tobacco products, and sodas (which West Virginians tend to drink a lot of). So, if you're not of retirement age, have a job that can be done remotely or a job lined up in WV, and this effort passes (which I think it will), it'd win out in my mind. But I'm biased having grown up there.



    I take a group of nearly 60 high school kids to the poorest counties in WV every year ostensibly to do home repairs through Appalachia Service Project. The reality is, I'm taking a bunch of fairly privileged kids to what is basically their backyard and showing them what the real world looks like. Yes, we make the homes of those we serve warmer, safer, and drier, but more importantly, we show the kids we take some pretty important life lessons. The one thing that I consistently hear every year we got from kids who are experiencing the region, people and culture for the first time is how they're amazed at how happy the people are even though they have so little in terms of wealth. Usually, it's by the time we've visited one of the many beautiful wild rivers in the region, or taken some time to see a sunset from a mountain top that they begin to realize why. Usually, the first day or two they're turned off a bit by how some towns are so run down, but by Saturday morning, they're upset they have to leave and want to come back as soon as possible.

    If you've never been there, it truly is a beautiful place:


    Good for you taking the kids to experience life outside of their elements and help others. I've done that with my church. It is amazing what they can do when they are allowed to and prompted a little.

    WV is a wonderland of natural beauty and adventure. Full of good people, maybe not rich in money but many other ways. I have plenty of relatives west of Clarksburg, mainly Doddridge Co.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    I work from home so i just need internet. My wife would probably move from working at the hospital in rockville and go to one close by hopefully. But yes we are thinking about the eastern areas near MD.

    There are plenty of options for her in WV as far as hospitals go. She can either go big with one of the university hospitals like Morgantown or one of the smaller regional ones. If you were to look farther down the road (and a bit farther away from MD) you'll find the CAMC hospital system based out of Charleston. Charleston is pretty nice overall. It's about the size of Frederick population-wise and has very good restaurants, good shops, is right where three major interstates meet, has an airport with daily jet service to metro areas, and even a navigable river. That's where I grew up and my folks still live there. If you want to live outside the city it's easy to do. Just a 10-minute drive from the city center and you're over a couple of ridges and in your own little section of the woods. If you want to live near good schools and amenities, you can live in Charleston, and then it's just a 10-minute drive to places like Kanawha State Forest which was a CCC project and includes picnic shelters, miles and miles of hiking, biking, and horseback riding trails, and on of WV's numerous FREE 100-yard outdoor shooting ranges.

    Internet access has greatly improved in rural WV over the past decade and is getting better and better all the time. Shelley Moore Capito has really been great about getting tech companies to route major trunk lines through the state. Facebook just ran one through the southern part of the state up through Beckley and there's another one that was run several years ago through the Morgantown/Fairmont/Clarksburg region. Lots of tech jobs have moved to the latter mentioned corridor recently as well. Well-educated CS degree holders from WVU combined with a low cost of living and good quality of life have drawn companies like Leidos there from here in suburban MD.

    Even without those new high-bandwidth options, it's getting easier and easier to have access in even the most rural areas. My buddy who works for Crowdstrike just got his dad a Starlink subscription for his house in Marlinton (Pocahontas county). $99/mo for 100 down 25 up that you can literally take ANYWHERE you want. That's not too shabby.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Good for you taking the kids to experience life outside of their elements and help others. I've done that with my church. It is amazing what they can do when they are allowed to and prompted a little.

    WV is a wonderland of natural beauty and adventure. Full of good people, maybe not rich in money but many other ways. I have plenty of relatives west of Clarksburg, mainly Doddridge Co.

    Doddridge County, home of the famously infamous Ephraim Bee, founder of the Ancient and Honorable Order of E Clampus Vitus!

    My brother in-law's family has some roots in Doddridge Co. My family was mainly from Lewis County, Roane County, and Mineral County.
     

    axshon

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    1,938
    Howard County
    Thanks for this! We've been looking but not too serious yet. My wife and I have taken a couple of weekends out to the Applebutter festival in Berkeley Springs. Cool little town. Not many places you can find a 'singing bowl' shop, good eats with jacked up 4x4's with glass packs driving by outside. We're looking in Morgan, Berkeley and Hampshire counties. I'd like a lot of property but I'd settle for 2+ acres for a weekend cabin that's within about 3 hours of E.C.

    Covenants aside, is there a legal property size limit where discharging a firearm is forbidden?
     

    FrankOceanXray

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 29, 2008
    12,028
    0.jpg


    OK guys, if you buy all this land... there won't be anymore! Please, nothing to see here. Disperse. Go home... close thread..
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Covenants aside, is there a legal property size limit where discharging a firearm is forbidden?

    It's county by county on that. I was on 1AC in Pocahontas County and shot my 10/22 off the front porch all the time, but there was nobody downrange of me and the next house was probably 50 yards away and only used as a vacation home. I'd look at the hunting laws regarding how far you have to be from a dwelling to discharge a firearm in the course of hunting and use that as a basis to start with. Then look for county ordinances.

    That said unless you're in town, or nut-to-butt with the neighbor in terms of the distance between houses, chances are, nobody will care if you're in the right area.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    This is all very bad information. Do not move to WV or even consider buying there. Stay in MD :innocent0

    0.jpg


    OK guys, if you buy all this land... there won't be anymore! Please, nothing to see here. Disperse. Go home... close thread..

    Now now, I'm an ex-pat native, I think that gives me first dibs over you two anyway. ;)

    Also, did I mention Tudor's Biscuit World yet? Usually, if someone's on the fence about WV, that seals the deal.
     

    FrankOceanXray

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 29, 2008
    12,028
    Now now, I'm an ex-pat native, I think that gives me first dibs over you two anyway. ;)

    Also, did I mention Tudor's Biscuit World yet? Usually, if someone's on the fence about WV, that seals the deal.

    Must cancel OP. He is from MSNBC and CNN!

    No, truly all great i do to consider. I am picking up some tidbits too. I hope we could all be neighbors. MDSity.
     

    traveller

    The one with two L
    Nov 26, 2010
    18,256
    variable
    Great information.

    To add a few items I have come across:

    - who owns the road to your property ?
    Are you on a county owned road, is owned by an association or does it simply run across someone elses property. I was looking at a really interesting property that was made up of 4 parcels, one of them was a 2ac strip that contained a road to a hillside subdivision. There was no recorded easement for the road or the utility poles alongside it. The road was maintained by the people living on it and they would have had a good claim for a prescriptive easement based on having documented use of the road for the past 40 years, but there is always the possibility that those kinds of things have to be settled in court.
    Who 'owns' the road may not be the one who maintains it. Many private roads are just maintained by the owners. Someone has a tractor with a box-blade and a length of rail on some chains that they use to smooth out the bumps a few times a year. If you buy property on the road, are you expected to chip in on a load of rock to resurface the portion down by the county road ? Are you part of the work-party when the next storm washes out a culvert ? Is there a crossing, what is the the load rating ?

    - Utility easements
    Tied into that is the question of utility easements. Just because the neighboring property has power doesn't mean the power company has an easement to put up 3 extra poles to get to your property line. Utility easements are not automatic and if the property is not the result of some recent subdivision, there may not be an easement in place to hook you up. So, dont listen to the land salesman on this. Talk to the power company on what it takes to set some poles and hook you up.
    Even more of an issue is internet. Coverage for that is spotty once you leave the actual towns or newer subdivisions. If you require true broadband, your options may be quite limited.

    - surveys and historic property descriptions
    If you buy something that is not the result of semi-recent subdivision, your deed description may be something 'from the bumpy oak thence to the old fenceline at the crest of the hill thence 2 chains and 20 paces to the crik'. Dont rely on what the county GIS shows for the property line. Property sizes on those old plots are truly '80 acres more or less'. All that doesn't matter as long as your neighbor is a local and nobody really cares which side of the line some tree is on. It does start to matter once some ******* lawyer from DC buys the tract next to you.

    - wells and septic, Public Utility Districts
    As mentioned, drilling a well is not a simple as it is in the coastal plain in Maryland. There are fewer defined aquifers and sometimes you end up drilling a deep hole in the rocks and come up dry (or with a very low yield well). Many community water systems in WV use treated surface water that gets pumped considerable distances.
    If you are close to a water line maintained by a 'PUD', talk to them on what the hookup-fees are. In WV, the role of the county in making your life easy is quite limited. Water for example is not provided by the county, it is often provided through a separate taxing entity called the 'PUD'. Many of these are rather small affairs with only a few employees. There are rules on who they can hook up and what they have to charge. Again, dont listen to the land salesman, if you are told that 'public water is available', verify that fact independently.

    - 'buying into the family holler'.
    If the road to your property is called 'Carl Diffenbaughs Road', you guessed it old Carl cut the road and 3/4 of the people on it share some of Carls DNA. Just make sure that the lot you are buying on the end of the road is not a contested piece of property. You know, the lot that Carl gave to uncle Fred in '55, but Fred went down to the bank in the 'City' (Cumberland or Winchester) and put a mortgage on it which he promptly turned into beer and wiskey in one of the taverns. Since that day, every outsider who has owned that property has been the recipient of the ire directed at the long deceased uncle Fred.
    Owning in that kind of family holler is great if the family likes you. If they dont, well you might find yourself with your 'driveway' replaced with a ditch because you can't prove that the right to use that access to 'their' road came with the property (see above 'who owns your road', chances are you have a customary easement, but you may have to argue it).

    - building permits (or the lack thereof)
    99% of the buildings you see from the highways in rural WV were built without a permit, or more precisely before permits became a requirement. While WV is far more reasonable on all of this, there are still requirements you have to adhere to. Just because its 'wild and wonderful' it doesn't mean you can just dig a ditch, fill it with gravel and start infiltrating sewage into the ground. You need perc tests and various permits once you start putting up a permanent dwelling. While you can probably build something like a 'container house', you can't just drag a container onto your new land and start hanging drywall.



    All of these issues are usually taken care of if the property is part of a subdivision. There is some kind of road maintenance agreement, utility easements are set aside and the PUD has run water lines along the subdivision roads. But with subdivisions come rules, and not having those rules is often a big part of why people want to buy in WV. Just know what you are buying. There are 'building lots' and then there is 'recreational land'. Turning the latter into a place to build a permanent home (rather than just a hunting cabin) can have its challenges.
     

    TWM

    Member
    Jul 4, 2013
    51
    Howard Co
    Another thing to consider is the various ways to pay for the land. I read a while back that land loans are harder to get without collateral because it's riskier for the banks. A home equity loan sounded more workable in that regard. I'll be interested in hearing from others that are further along in the process or already own land out there.

    We got a land loan for property we bought this past summer. Wasn’t any more difficult than a regular loan. You just have to find a bank that does them. We used Bank of Romney (even though the property was in PA).
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Must cancel OP. He is from MSNBC and CNN!

    No, truly all great i do to consider. I am picking up some tidbits too. I hope we could all be neighbors. MDSity.

    I'm just waiting for Pushrod to poke his head in here are say "Sorry folks, state's closed! John Denver out front should have told ya!"

    Great information.

    I incorporated your stuff into the first post! All fantastic info and excellent points!
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    We got a land loan for property we bought this past summer. Wasn’t any more difficult than a regular loan. You just have to find a bank that does them. We used Bank of Romney (even though the property was in PA).

    Good to know! I'll add that in along with a link to them and any other banks that I can find that do land-only loans in the region.
     

    Pushrod

    Master Blaster
    Aug 8, 2007
    2,979
    WV High Country
    I work from home so i just need internet. My wife would probably move from working at the hospital in rockville and go to one close by hopefully. But yes we are thinking about the eastern areas near MD.

    Sounds like my family. I work for the DOD from home and my wife is a Critical Care nurse at the local hospital in Elkins. We just payed our deposit for StarLink, which should be hands over fists better than Hughsnet, which is our current satellite internet provider.

    You and your wife could easily make it work here is you so desired.
     

    Pushrod

    Master Blaster
    Aug 8, 2007
    2,979
    WV High Country
    I'm just waiting for Pushrod to poke his head in here are say "Sorry folks, state's closed! John Denver out front should have told ya!"



    I incorporated your stuff into the first post! All fantastic info and excellent points!

    Nah! As long as they are Constitutional-following, Self-reliant Patriot gun-owners with fiscal conservative values the state is wide open to them. The other kind need not apply! :D
     

    G8tor

    Active Member
    Nov 30, 2013
    373
    Calvert County
    We got a land loan for property we bought this past summer. Wasn’t any more difficult than a regular loan. You just have to find a bank that does them. We used Bank of Romney (even though the property was in PA).

    How was the rate compared to the rock bottom mortgage rates available right now? I'm assuming land loans have higher rates due to the risk.
     

    TWM

    Member
    Jul 4, 2013
    51
    Howard Co
    How was the rate compared to the rock bottom mortgage rates available right now? I'm assuming land loans have higher rates due to the risk.

    Slightly higher, but not too bad. We did 20% down on a 7/1 ARM with a rate of 3.2% (plan is to pay it off in a few years). If I recall, a different bank (don’t remember which one) required 25% down for a 30-year fixed, but that rate was a bit higher...maybe low to mid 4s. This was all around July of last year.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Slightly higher, but not too bad. We did 20% down on a 7/1 ARM with a rate of 3.2% (plan is to pay it off in a few years). If I recall, a different bank (don’t remember which one) required 25% down for a 30-year fixed, but that rate was a bit higher...maybe low to mid 4s. This was all around July of last year.

    Not that bad at all either way you slice it. Especially if you have the cash flow to pay off the ARM in that 7-year fixed period or at least substantially pay down the principal.
     

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