Eagle Arms Shows ban 80% receiver sales

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  • erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Eagle Arms really thinks that average street criminals have the patience and skill to finish milling a lower receiver when they can more easily steal a complete firearm?
    Without defending this action per se, I think it's pretty clear from the number of unserialized guns being recovered that criminals are using 80% receivers to obtain guns.

    Now, whether that's a reason to ban them... not sure I agree with that. We're at the point where you can just flat-out 3D print receivers/frames now, and even Glock frames only require a simple rail component to finish. In a few years, CNCs that can mill out a receiver from a block of aluminum or something only roughly forged will be widely available. Closing the barn doors now is a waste of time.

    That said, their show, their rules. If they think the potential liability from selling 80% receivers exceeds the benefits of allowing them to be sold, hard to blame them from banning them from a business perspective.
     

    MigraineMan

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 9, 2011
    19,109
    Frederick County
    Without defending this action per se, I think it's pretty clear from the number of unserialized guns being recovered that criminals are using 80% receivers to obtain guns.
    Without accurate data from law enforcement, it's impossible to take a rational position. If a previously-serialized-but-defaced firearm is considered "unserialized," the police stating that they siezed (not gonna say recovered) XX "ghost guns" is meaningless. If I recall correctly, recent testimony from a BPD Lite Colonel at the MDGA sessions two weeks ago suggests that they do not make a distinction. He did offer that they often can process a defaced firearm and recover the serial number, but it wasn't clear if they went back and removed that item from the initial "unserialized" classification.

    No doubt, there's an increase in seizures of firearms that started life as 80% kits. Shouldn't be a surprise, as they didn't really exist a decade ago. Criminals will take the least-risk path to obtain their prohibited items. However, buying 80% kits and finishing them requires a business (effectively) and time and skill ... the net result of which is a product with a much lower profit margin than one starting with a five-finger discount. If the 80% starting-point were an optimization, one would expect that smash-and-grab behavior would become non-existent, right?

    The gun-grabbers might as well state that there's been a 3000% increase in Sig P365 seizures from 2018 to present, where none had been seized prior to that. It's an epidemic! Clearly it's preferred by criminals! Ban it!

    (yes, the P365 production began in 2018)
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Without accurate data from law enforcement, it's impossible to take a rational position. If a previously-serialized-but-defaced firearm is considered "unserialized," the police stating that they siezed (not gonna say recovered) XX "ghost guns" is meaningless. If I recall correctly, recent testimony from a BPD Lite Colonel at the MDGA sessions two weeks ago suggests that they do not make a distinction. He did offer that they often can process a defaced firearm and recover the serial number, but it wasn't clear if they went back and removed that item from the initial "unserialized" classification.

    No doubt, there's an increase in seizures of firearms that started life as 80% kits. Shouldn't be a surprise, as they didn't really exist a decade ago. Criminals will take the least-risk path to obtain their prohibited items. However, buying 80% kits and finishing them requires a business (effectively) and time and skill ... the net result of which is a product with a much lower profit margin than one starting with a five-finger discount. If the 80% starting-point were an optimization, one would expect that smash-and-grab behavior would become non-existent, right?

    The gun-grabbers might as well state that there's been a 3000% increase in Sig P365 seizures from 2018 to present, where none had been seized prior to that. It's an epidemic! Clearly it's preferred by criminals! Ban it!

    (yes, the P365 production began in 2018)

    This. Every time the data was questioned when a PD rolled out the "X number of "ghost guns" used in crimes" ends up being every firearm where a serial number was illegible, defaced, or couldn't be tracked for one reason or another. Even the "used in a crime" thing is misleading, most of the time something like violation of transport laws, possession by prohibited person, or even defacing the serial# itself, wasn't like it was dropped during a bank robbery. I'm sure some legitimate 80% firearms have been recovered, but between all the BS and lies, it's impossible to tell if it is an actual problem or not. If the democrats past record on gun control is any indication, i'm guessing they are full of BS to the nature and scope of any issues with P80 kits, and Eagle arms just jumped in bed with them anyway.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,173
    Outside the Gates
    Pretty sure there was one single 80% derived gun confiscated in MD in 2019 and 4 2020. My money would be on all 5 being stolen.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,173
    Outside the Gates
    I have seen news media combine the numbers of obliterated serial numbers with 80%’s to make an exaggeration. They use the public’s poor reading comprehension to their advantage
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    Without defending this action per se, I think it's pretty clear from the number of unserialized guns being recovered that criminals are using 80% receivers to obtain guns.

    Now, whether that's a reason to ban them... not sure I agree with that.

    banning something because a small % of the population misuses them is just bullsh1t. if we don't trust KNOWN criminals to not repeat their violence, the only sure answer is keeping them in jail. problem solved. why is this never even considered?
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Pretty sure there was one single 80% derived gun confiscated in MD in 2019 and 4 2020. My money would be on all 5 being stolen.
    MoCo PD claimed at a recent hearing that they confiscated like 60 of them, but I don't have the numbers in front of me. It's definitely not 5 in two years.
     

    Ammo Jon

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 3, 2008
    20,785
    Maybe if they made murder illegal that would finally stop the criminals? Seems by definition criminals are law abiding. No?
     

    MigraineMan

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 9, 2011
    19,109
    Frederick County
    Last time I looked, it was a serious offense to use a firearm in a crime serialized or not.
    But the serial number allows the firearm to be traced. TRACED! And that prevents crime! Several people testified about this irrefutable truthiness at the HJC hearings this session. They even used exactly the same words sometimes, which just enhances the truthiness.

    Oh, and the requirement of a background check on an 80% sale will reduce suicides, too.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    What does confiscated mean and what does "confiscated like 60 of them" mean.
    Right here: https://wtop.com/maryland/2021/01/maryland-state-county-lawmakers-target-ghost-guns/

    73 of them in 2020, in just MoCo. Is it possible some of these were simply normal guns with defiled serials? Possible. But that's hardly a new thing.

    Look, I'm not here to argue that 80% receivers should be banned (they shouldn't be). I'm just saying that denying that criminals are using these things is going to be a loser of an argument for us. Yes, individual criminals tend to be dumb, but as the aforementioned article mentions, it's gangs that really like these.

    Again, let's actually work on responding to our opponents rather than reflexively denying anything they say.
     

    ST19AG_WGreymon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 16, 2009
    2,405
    Odenton
    Was it a full firearm or just the 80%? The answer seems like it would be obvious, but it is AA county...

    Feb 2

    VM2NgGS.png


    https://www.aacounty.org/news-and-events/news/police-press-release---february-1-2021
     

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