Yep, doesn’t pay legal fees or expert witnesses. I do have a 2 mil umbrella policy as well. It’s less than 25 bucks a month
CCW Self Defense Insurance?
- Thread starter Firedog1979
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast
Member Benefits:
No ad networks! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
Well, if it doesn't pay legal fees or expert witnesses, how does it help you in a criminal trial? LOL
It covers financial judgements I have CCW safe for legal fees
Last edited:
apagios
Member
- Jun 4, 2012
- 27
I went with Armed Citizens Legal Defense network as they cover civil suits as well.
https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/
https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/
FePhoenix
Member
Over a million insurance with USCCA, abt 30/mo.
I'll get slammed for this but WTH.
What an F'ing sham that the NRA 'sells' this in addition to their membership.
It would cost them nothing to provide coverage as a part of membership. They could easily self insure on this. Maybe they would have to pay out in what - maybe 10 cases per year? Its in their benefit - or, the benefit of the people they are supposed to represent, to do this anyway. Every case that someone loses due to insufficient funds to fight will cost the NRA much more in its lobbying efforts to reverse. But that's probably part of the plan.
Fire away.
What an F'ing sham that the NRA 'sells' this in addition to their membership.
It would cost them nothing to provide coverage as a part of membership. They could easily self insure on this. Maybe they would have to pay out in what - maybe 10 cases per year? Its in their benefit - or, the benefit of the people they are supposed to represent, to do this anyway. Every case that someone loses due to insufficient funds to fight will cost the NRA much more in its lobbying efforts to reverse. But that's probably part of the plan.
Fire away.
bobb10010x
Member
CCW insurance
USCCA and Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network are the 2 to look at seriously. USCCA is insurance and ACLDN is a guidance/referral service that also includes overlapping coverage for legal fees, attorneys fees, bail, etc. ALCDN has an advisory board staffed by Massad Ayoob, Dennis Tueller, John Farnham, Tom Givens and other very high profile individuals in the personal defense game.
USCCA and Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network are the 2 to look at seriously. USCCA is insurance and ACLDN is a guidance/referral service that also includes overlapping coverage for legal fees, attorneys fees, bail, etc. ALCDN has an advisory board staffed by Massad Ayoob, Dennis Tueller, John Farnham, Tom Givens and other very high profile individuals in the personal defense game.
Like anything take the time to read the fine print. Some only reimburse you if you win. Some only cover defensive uses of firearms and not any other weapons or fists. Some only cover criminal defense and not civil suits. I like the ACLDN. A full blown murder trial in Maryland is going to set you back $100-200K depending on experts, investigators etc. Or you can get the public defender for free...
As others have stated Maryland does have the castle doctrine and has had it since colonial times. Here is some more info: https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=5084462#post5084462
As others have stated Maryland does have the castle doctrine and has had it since colonial times. Here is some more info: https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=5084462#post5084462
Supervel
Member
We went with NRA Carry Guard after confirming that they policy also covers your spouse/significant other whether or not
they actually have a Valid carry permit. None of the others covered an un-permitted spouse that uses
a firearm in self defense. Little more money but is like 2 policies.
they actually have a Valid carry permit. None of the others covered an un-permitted spouse that uses
a firearm in self defense. Little more money but is like 2 policies.
mumfrey
Active Member
Do any of them, besides CCW Safe, actually have any history of being used successfully, or used at all for that matter? CCW Safe successfully defended a member recentIy. I can't find any info on any of the others having actually been put to use?
So, define not having a permit? No one needs a permit in their home.
So you are saying that your spouse carries without a permit? No insurance will cover someone carrying illegally.
That being said,
CCW SAFE has a spouse covered when using a weapon inside a home.
The CCW Safe Defender Plan Covers a Concealed Carry Permit holder for any criminal, civil or administrative legal action stemming from a self-defense incident. This plan is non-transferrable. The Primary member must either have a resident or non-resident concealed carry permit (Does not include FOID cards). All permits must remain valid. The Primary member will be covered (up to 500k bond) for all legal use of force responses to life threatening attacks at your home, your vehicle and any place it is legal to carry in public or on premises in which possession of a firearm is not illegal or prohibited by the property owner (all legal weapons covered). All family members that reside at the home of the Primary member, who are not prohibited from possessing a firearm, shall be covered at no additional cost inside the residence ONLY (all covered up to a 250k bond).
No others do. But, the Massad Ayoob fan boys will tout his expert witness expertise with whoever he is associated with.
Having personally dealt with their administrators, on non-firearm matters, I'd probably go this route too.
The other companies just don't give me any concrete evidence that they are funded enough to monetarily handle more than one or two cases at a time. Say they get a dozen or a half dozen cases simultaneously they could bankrupt themselves. I don't believe these companies fall under the "statutory capital reserve ratio" that regular insurance companies do so I'm not confident that the money will be there when I need it to be.
I bet your car is an Audi or BMW.
Ok, I don't know what that is supposed to mean.
Purchase of a product that might not pay out isn't a worthwhile purchase to me. That is why I haven't purchased any of them. However, given the choices, the safest bet is probably the NRA one.
Spend some time on an Audi or BMW (motorcycle or car) forum and see how picky and break things down to ridiculous) they can be. They research so much to the point that they find nothing else viable other than what they research.
CCW SAFE has already paid out 1 successful case for over 350k. None of the others have. So really, only 1 has actually proven they do pay out.
You honestly think there will be a run on (any) of those companies of having multiple cases at one time?
Yes. The fact they hide their capitalization is a clear sign. The fact CCW has multiple layers of insurance of themselves is a clear sign.
If this were a simple process all the big names would offer insurance. USAA, Progressive, etc... Umbrella policies don't cover intentional shooting of someone. Self defense or otherwise.
Without question there isn't enough of a pool of policy holders to maintain a payout of multiple cases in a given year. The market is too small and they know it. I am not positive but I'd bet a dime to a dollar they are not required to maintain the statutory capital reserve ratio regular insurance companies are required to. That is why they have so many layers of nonsense LLCs
Well, go without. Like I said, how many payouts do you expect them to have? There has been 1 out of all the companies. So they are a scam and the NRA is the only "legit" one because they are the NRA?
Maybe you don't need insurance at all because you don't carry? So the real need is diminished to almost nil?
Do you actually think you will need their service? But you are saying that your research is so spot on, that you'd rather do something else with 300 bucks a year?
No, I didn't say any of that and you make a lot of assumptions.
I said I am skeptical of all of them that is why I haven't purchased. However, based on just 10 minutes of research, in my opinion, the NRA one would be the safest bet if you had to have a payout based on what can be discovered regarding capitalization. Also, as I stated, I have dealt with Lockton Affinity (NRA Administrators) when I volunteered with Habitat for Humanity. They are not insurance. They are admins that shop insurance.
What other type of insurance doesn't have requirements of disclosure? Answer: None. That is why what these companies are offering isn't insurance. Not being a lawyer or accountant I can't be sure what laws they fall under. However, if you have an insurance company and cover it with a LLC that is also called an insurance company then re-insurance it with an outside private company probably keeps them out of actual insurance statutory requirements. If bells don't go off that something here is wrong then I don't know what to say.
I don't get your defensiveness regarding something that you are not a proprietor of. I'm sure you get some value for your money. All these places have specialized lawyers and the ability to pay something. But their ability to payout what they say they can is in question.
You said they settled a case for $350,000. That is the amount they get for 1,167 members at what they charge of $300 / year for their non-permit plans. What if they had to pay out 6 of those cases in a year. $2.1 million. They would be bankrupt and you would be lucky to be covered. That is the revenue of almost 7000 paying members. In such a tiny market I just don't think they have the membership base to cover their costs. That doesn't even include their regular overhead of day to day business. They are gambling the percentages that their membership base will expand yearly and not have a large payout each year. It's probably a good bet but I'm not willing to plunk down money on that bet. Not in today's world of crazies. I'd also bet if they start seeing a successful demand their prices are going to be adjusted to location, type of training you have, experience, etc.
Last edited:
