So what if Hogan wins a Second term?

rambling_one said:

Most of these posts beg the question (yet again)...for those insisting on a "pure" 2A Republican candidate: point out the name on the upcoming ballot and I promise to vote for him or her.

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There isn't one, but Shawn Quinn is running for governor and is the only pro-2A candidate.

From his website:

We support the 2nd Amendment.

We fully support the 2nd Amendment. We support overturning all unconstitutional bans on weapons, including barriers in place preventing law abiding citizens from obtaining carry and conceal permits.

So there you go. Vote Quinn for governor.

CrazySanMan said:

There isn't one, but Shawn Quinn is running for governor and is the only pro-2A candidate.

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He does sound great. Of course, voting for him is voting for the Socialist who is rabidly anti-gun.

Matlack said:

You do realize that Republicans have incrementally made gains in the MGA over the past 3 decades? They are within 5 senators or 7 house members of being able to prevent veto overrides and can slow progression of bad Bill's. This wasn't an overnight thing. Never will be. Allow the electorate to see popular Republicans in office making their lives better, and you can start seeing more conservative voices in the MGA and State House. Twice Miller has been within 1 vote of being replaced as speaker.

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You did see how the majority of the republicans in the mga voted last session didn’t you?

They may as well be dems

Occam said:

Because here on actual planet earth, in the deep-blue state of Maryland, we have every expectation that things will continue to slide, demographically, bluer and bluer. And we have two candidates that aren't from the Fantasy Candidate League to actually choose from here in actual reality. One of them is actively, aggressively promising to do things that will be disastrous for the state in all sorts of ways, and the other is good on some things, luke warm on some things, annoying on some things, but on balance not a disaster. We've got one guy who thinks you shouldn't even have a shotgun, and another guy who isn't saying any such thing.

And THOSE are our two choices. You are suggesting NON-choices that, as vote parasites, will only support the worst possible outcome, and are carefully avoiding discussing the reality of what WILL happen if Jealous wins as you intend. You say to vote on principle, and call for behavior that will support a Socialist. My principles call for me to work against the Socialist you prefer. Electing one won't position us for anything better in the long run, it speeds the ruin. Why your principles embrace that ruin is a head scratcher, but there it is. The central point: I don't accept your underlying premise. Getting the Socialist you prefer into office will not cause some imaginary future hard right conservative to become a darling of the state's lefty liberal voters and set everything right, one day, hocus pocus. That's pure bunk.

What will happen is that the Socialist you support will make things far worse, immediately, and ever more conservative voters, businesses, and votes will flee the state, letting the blue stain spread ever farther out west and east of the liberal population core. That's the vision you're embracing. That's the actual real world result you're calling for. Your plan to further marginalize the state's small GOP presence in order to somehow make it stronger is, truly, pure fantasy.

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You have more than two choices. You have Shawn Quinn. You have the option to write-in a message of reform to the Maryland GOP. Electing RINOs is going to drive more conservatives out of the state and make MD even deeper blue. Keep voting for crap candidates if you want, but don't complain when more gun control is passed next year. Maryland passes more and more gun control bills every single year.

Occam said:

And you're expecting your preferred socialist governor, who is rabidly anti-gun, to help you with that?

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I don't prefer any socialist governor. That's why I suggest you use your vote to help reform Maryland's damn-near-socialist republican party. The MDGOP moves farther left every election cycle and you keep supporting that move with your vote.

Occam said:

Yeah. Hearing fellow non-crazy-Marylanders say they want a shiny new socialist governor because that's the long game solution to getting true conservatives in office in a deep blue state ... it does indeed makes me Angry Dog. Destroying the village to save the villagers won't work in this case.

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Voting for the lesser of two evils will? I did that for 42 years in Maryland before I got smart and voted with my feet. I come back here to MDS and fight because I still have a lot of friends and family in Maryland who are worth fighting for, and because all the Maryland gun control nonsense from this supposed republican governor sets bad precedents for other blue states to follow. It upsets me to see people who are on a gun forum be so eager to get down on their knees for a gun grabber.

Occam said:

It will leave MD at the mercy of many drawn-out legal battles that may well find their way to the SCOTUS. It's one of the reasons that trying to slow things down by opting for the more squishy Hogan instead of throwing votes away and indirectly supporting the immediately disastrous Jealous is the best strategy. Because if we can manage a little more time without this state jumping completely off the cliff, we may be able to rely on the Constitution and the Supreme Court to help claw our way back to a stand-off of sorts.

If 2A purists blow their votes virtue-signaling, and let the Socialist have the reigns, a lot of irreversible damage (local gun shops driven permanently out of business, many small and mid-sized employers crushed by leftist policies, many moderate to conservative voters fleeing the state) is a given. We don't have to LIKE Hogan or the circumstances that both and and we find ourselves. But we don't have to throw ourselves off the nearest lefty cliff in a tantrum, either.

At the national level, we dodged a huge bullet in 2016. Many of us voted for Trump specifically so we'd see him - rather than Hillary Clinton - replacing some justices on the Supreme Court. That's a good thing generally, but it could be a huge part of what ultimately saves a few rational scraps of Maryland over the next few years. So let's buy all the time we can instead of jumping into a virtue signaling suicide pact in the name of theatrics.

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What has voting for the lesser of two evils gotten you? Are your 2A rights better now than they were 4 years ago? Are your taxes lower? Less illegal immigrants in Maryland?

Colorado's governor is a democrat, but I really believe Hogan is to the left of him. Colorado had 2 bad gun bills passed in 2013, the year before I fled Maryland. They passed a 15 round magazine limit and they passed background checks for FTF sales. You know what happened after that? Several Colorado legislators who pushed for the gun bills were recalled and removed from office by referendums. The sheriffs of every county but one said they will not enforce the 15 round mag limit and they took the state to court over it. Hickenlooper publicly apologized for signing the 15 round mag bill, said it was a bad bill and a bad decision, and said he supported it's repeal. No gun control bill has been passed since then and this year the ban on carrying automatic knives was lifted.

Matlack said:

You do realize that Republicans have incrementally made gains in the MGA over the past 3 decades? They are within 5 senators or 7 house members of being able to prevent veto overrides and can slow progression of bad Bill's. This wasn't an overnight thing. Never will be. Allow the electorate to see popular Republicans in office making their lives better, and you can start seeing more conservative voices in the MGA and State House. Twice Miller has been within 1 vote of being replaced as speaker.

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and if Hogan can redistrict to eliminate gerrymandering, we can pick up a few more seats

44man said:

With the good drs help I have decided mecand my family and my guys will vote hogan this year so that’s outta the way

I do have a question, a serious question.

With more and more liberals moving in md every year as more and more 2a loving conservatives move out of md as fast as they can and every election cycle conservatives choose someone with lower and lower on the 2a totem pole and farther and farther left for the republican candidate for governor, where does this end and leave md?

I mean the lesser of two evils means lowering the standard every election.

How long until md is completely lost?

It seems most here agree with voting for the lesser of two evils and lowering the standard so what’s the end game?

I don’t see the dems doing anything but lowering their bar to get down to complete socialism so that brings the republican bar down each cycle until ...what? I don’t know.

Apparently gun grabbing is ok with republican politicians now judging by lady session

I just don’t know what the end game is?

Is Maryland gonna start importing conservatives??

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All points worthy of query, but allow me to answer a couple that aren't brought up often...

"Importing conservatives"... The only way something like that could happen, is to improve the tax and business climate. Hogan has started this, but SO much more work is needed. A new balance in the GA is critical here as well, in order to block Mike & Mike (and their tax-grabber cronies).

Is Maryland heading toward Socialism? Yes, but IMO it doesn't have to continue. In addition to restructuring the GA to reduce the stranglehold that is preventing any significant reforms (including taking power away from the Governor's office to hand it over to unelected appointees of the GA leadership), the arbiter of the state's interactions with the law/Constitution (both State and Federal) is a huge Progressive nutbag, who is all but avowed to reduce the state we all want to love to a smoldering Socialist ruin. The scariest part is that Frosh doesn't seem to care about his own legacy, as long as the current state fails. He MUST be replaced.

Mr H said:

All points worthy of query, but allow me to answer a couple that aren't brought up often...

"Importing conservatives"... The only way something like that could happen, is to improve the tax and business climate. Hogan has started this, but SO much more work is needed. A new balance in the GA is critical here as well, in order to block Mike & Mike (and their tax-grabber cronies).

Is Maryland heading toward Socialism? Yes, but IMO it doesn't have to continue. In addition to restructuring the GA to reduce the stranglehold that is preventing any significant reforms (including taking power away from the Governor's office to hand it over to unelected appointees of the GA leadership), the arbiter of the state's interactions with the law/Constitution (both State and Federal) is a huge Progressive nutbag, who is all but avowed to reduce the state we all want to love to a smoldering Socialist ruin. The scariest part is that Frosh doesn't seem to care about his own legacy, as long as the current state fails. He MUST be replaced.

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Indeed frosh needs to go, that is without a doubt

The mga needs different type of republicans, only a few of them are real republicans and conservatives and most of them purposely fvcked us this year a need replacing

And as to md getting buisness friendly, it’s worse now with hogan in there and dealing with the state and the way they now work is a joke, it’s like they threw out the trained monkeys and imported untrained sloths, completely counter productive

CrazySanMan said:

What has voting for the lesser of two evils gotten you?

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Less misery that we would otherwise have. Which you know.

Are your 2A rights better now than they were 4 years ago? Are your taxes lower? Less illegal immigrants in Maryland?

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In every case, less bad than they'd otherwise be. Which you know.

Your plan - to throw away your vote on a candidate that YOU KNOW cannot and will not win in hopes of some vague future wish that millions of diehard liberal voters in Maryland will suddenly wake up and vote for a hard right conservative - is, in real life, your support for the Socialist to win. Which you know.

Occam said:

Less misery that we would otherwise have. Which you know.



In every case, less bad than they'd otherwise be. Which you know.

Your plan - to throw away your vote on a candidate that YOU KNOW cannot and will not win in hopes of some vague future wish that millions of diehard liberal voters in Maryland will suddenly wake up and vote for a hard right conservative - is, in real life, your support for the Socialist to win. Which you know.

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I don't know.

44man said:

Indeed frosh needs to go, that is without a doubt

The mga needs different type of republicans, only a few of them are real republicans and conservatives and most of them purposely fvcked us this year a need replacing

"Purposefully", from what I've seen and heard, is questionable. I've not had a chance to talk to any of those in question, but the others I HAVE talked to are intimating that there could have been worse results. In any case, it's the people's responsibility to (actively, where possible) work for the representatives they feel are acting in their best interests.

And as to md getting buisness friendly, it’s worse now with hogan in there and dealing with the state and the way they now work is a joke, it’s like they threw out the trained monkeys and imported untrained sloths, completely counter productive

I'll be a little more pointed here... Brown would have buried the state in taxes and fees by now, and would have killed business growth in the outer edges of the state. Jealous likely feels he has ground to make up. Hogan has tried to lessen the burden with toll and fee reductions, but as soon as it looked like he might be able to do something on taxes and spending handles, Mike & Mike took a lot of his authority away, and even hamstrung Franchot to a degree. "Plan Maryland" hasn't been abandoned by the Left... Hogan is fighting upstream to keep it at bay.

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I hate to push back, but look at my comments above...

I respect the opinion of everyone who thinks "Nothing's gotten significantly BETTER, so who do I care wins"?

The key is nothing's gotten WORSE, either. We're a 2A forum and Jealous will advocate for more anti-gun bills he will sign. Jealous will also be more tax and spend (free college, anyone?)

Choose your own adventure. I know where I'm placing my bets.

platoonDaddy said:

I don't know.

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You don't know whether or not Jealous will win if he gets the most votes? That's pretty fundamental stuff. Here's what we know:

1) Hogan or Jealous will win.
2) No other candidate will even come close.
3) Votes thrown away on them will, without fail, help Jealous to win.

Are you really staking your entire position, here, on the prospect of Quill getting more votes than Hogan AND more votes than Jealous? Yes or no.

If the answer is Yes, then you're operating on really bad information and/or a really bad case of wishful thinking. If the answer is No, then everything you're saying is really just you supporting the success of the Socialist that - unlike Hogan - is actively talking about taking away your guns, right down to grandpa's shotgun. To say nothing of the long list of non-2A-related train wrecks he explicitly says he wants to inflict on us. What don't you know? Specifically.

Mr H said:

I hate to push back, but look at my comments above...

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I don’t take this as pushing back, I figured this was me trying to figure some stuff out

I try and not think of what may have happened or what might happen but what has happened.

Hogan hasn’t done a whole lot on anything that I can see, I don’t count tolls, that was bread crumbs for the circus and the hgrb is just a scheme to keep those with money and time off his ass. My taxes are higher, red tapes out of control and the states run like a circus. He’s hurt us on guns. But he’s gotta be better than jealous so I capitulated and we will vote for him.

But I just don’t see how we are getting md back on the 2a track by loosing something every session and lowering the bar every election

It boggles my mind is all I am saying

And despite what you may think , what you say and how you explain things mean a lot to me, so thanks for explaining things to me when I am sure there are times you would rather not

I appreciate that more than you know. I'd much rather discuss with the willing than beat my head against the wall with those who refuse to listen.

We also have to keep in mind that the new Federal tax structure--in ways I still don't understand--hit many Marylanders hard. That isn't Hogan's fault, but rather the vast parade of Democrat grabbers before him.

CrazySanMan said:

There isn't one, but Shawn Quinn is running for governor and is the only pro-2A candidate.

From his website:

We support the 2nd Amendment.

We fully support the 2nd Amendment. We support overturning all unconstitutional bans on weapons, including barriers in place preventing law abiding citizens from obtaining carry and conceal permits.

So there you go. Vote Quinn for governor.

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Oh, of course, the Mighty Mr. 1.5% !

If that guy performs well at the polls, the very best he can hope for is to ensure that socialist Ben Jealous becomes our governor. He's a potential spolier, and nothing more.

Jim12 said:

Oh, of course, the Mighty Mr. 1.5% !

If that guy performs well at the polls, the very best he can hope for is to ensure that socialist Ben Jealous becomes our governor. He's a potential spolier, and nothing more.

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He's the Sobhani Candidate, whether intentional or not... and not even a good one.

This thread has proven to me two things, beyond the shadow of a doubt:

1. I'm smarter than all of you.
2. You're all smarter than me.

Boondock Saint said:

This thread had proven to me two things, beyond the shadow of a doubt.

1. I'm smarter than all of you.
2. You're all smarter than me.

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You are correct, lol

Jim12 said:

COTUS "allows" it? Where does it say that?

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The DofI.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The 2A.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.