Man, your stamina is amazing. You make us proud!
21st Gun Bill Day thread
- Thread starter smokey
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast
Member Benefits:
No ad networks! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
- Status
Man, your stamina is amazing. You make us proud!
Are those the only two SB's or are those left over HB's and the corresponding SB's to the HB's we saw yesterday.
- May 22, 2005
- 122,879
Those are Senate bills.
The next House date if I recall is March 6 for bills we're tracking. I'm not on my own computer until this evening so I don't have all of my stuff in front of me.
- May 22, 2005
- 122,879
We tried to hook up with the WBAL guy but he was always around when we were in working on a bill.
One of the reasons repeatedly cited by the MSP as a non-qualifier for a permit was that, "apprehended fear" was not a good and substantial reason. I wish that we could have addressed that topic as it was stated by the MSP officers.
I don't think most of us live in fear. Rather, in our daily lives we take many actions on a proactive, rather than a reactive basis. We lock our doors to prevent unauthorized entry and possible loss. We visit our doctors to help maintain our health and prevent (or reduce the risk of) disease or premature death. We purchase insurance to protect our property, health and lives against potential (but not certain) loss. We take proactive steps every day to enhance our safety and well-being. Not because we are afraid, but because we are intelligent, conscientious protectors of ourselves, our families and our property. Not only is it our right, it is our duty to do these things.
Having a permit to conceal a weapon to allow us to have the ability to defend ourselves and our families against a possible threat (however unlikely) is exactly the same thing... proactive preparedness against potential loss.
I don't think most of us live in fear. Rather, in our daily lives we take many actions on a proactive, rather than a reactive basis. We lock our doors to prevent unauthorized entry and possible loss. We visit our doctors to help maintain our health and prevent (or reduce the risk of) disease or premature death. We purchase insurance to protect our property, health and lives against potential (but not certain) loss. We take proactive steps every day to enhance our safety and well-being. Not because we are afraid, but because we are intelligent, conscientious protectors of ourselves, our families and our property. Not only is it our right, it is our duty to do these things.
Having a permit to conceal a weapon to allow us to have the ability to defend ourselves and our families against a possible threat (however unlikely) is exactly the same thing... proactive preparedness against potential loss.
He showed up at about 5:50 stuck his head in. I was the first blue shirt he saw. I explained how 40+ states all with less crime than Md are either shall issue or Constitutional carry. I spent about 5min explaining the 2 concepts then he was off like a prom dress.
He was talking to some guy named John, didn't catch his last name.
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,497
John patty? I went to school with his sons, steve and john jr.
No, the MSI guy he talked to was John something from Southern Maryland.
I know Balazek is a mouthfull. Like the joke about what the Eastern European gave his wife on their wedding day that was long and hard.
Ok, I admit, I always assumed your name was Max. Nicely done.
ChrisR/T
Resident Beer Snob
You should submit this to the media and let them run with it. Hold those accountable for the job they do.
PresentArms
Ultimate Member
Thats everyday! I was up there last year and it was the same. Thay dont care. This should go to the media and more should be exposed.
You sounded good hvymax. Thanks for speaking up.
- May 22, 2005
- 122,879
Don't get too hung up on the term "apprehended fear" because that is not the real crux of the problem. Every permit that is issued everywhere is issued on the basis of "apprehended fear", meaning the sense that you have evaluated that you have the need to carry a firearm out of fear of some danger.
In most states, just applying for the permit is good enough to receive it.
In Maryland, the problem is that the term "apprehended fear" has been applied in 98% of the permits issued to be a sense of "apprehended danger" due to occupation, whether that be police, retired police, business owner, judge, etc.
They have only issued 1.8% of all permits issued to persons for the purpose of self-defense because they have not demonstrated a "good and substantial" reason for issuance of a permit against "apprehended danger".
The Snowden ruling is the problem here where the judge ruled that apprehended danger cannot be due to "one's personal anxiety".
So, again....apprehended fear is not the issue.
Good and substantial is.
Robert
Having Fun Yet?
Testimony started promptly at 1PM with Del Smigiel, followed by better than 30 MSI and regular citizens in support that ran until @ 3:30. Then followed almost two hours of grilling of the 2 lonely MSP representatives, who were the designated whipping boys from their Commander and Gov. OweMalley. They offered nothing in defense and a lot of comic relief using expert opinions like habada, habada, habada, and factual information like We know good and substantial when we see it.
Del Smigiel did point out some interesting statistics during his opening remarks
42,000 CCWs have been issued in MD. 1/3 were for law enforcement (more on that later), 1/3 were for bankers, merchants, and health professionals, and of the last 1/3 only 1.8% were for persons needing for it self-defense. So what about the remainder of the last 1/3 you guessed it ... for politicians and connected individuals. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, he and Norton used this data to bookend the whole afternoons testimony.
My judgment of the reactions from the Delegates on the Judiciary Committee ...
Of the 22 Delegates in attendance, 9 had positive questions and responses, 1 had a negative (but entirely irrelevant) question, and the remainder except for the Chairman, were too busy doing their e-mail (or playing Farmville) to bother to listen let alone comment, including Del. Conaway whose mouth was full of crow thus rendering him unable to speak. He did offer a question, but had his proxy Del. Arora speak for him using the its for the children plea in hopes of eliciting sympathy from the MSI members testifying who are parents. I think that they finally decided that we had a better idea on how protect our kids.
Del Alston was very impressive with her pointed questions regarding costs and fees generated, obviously wanting to pin down MSP on what they thought it would ultimately cost if the law were changed, and get them to fess up that they were really there to wrangle this into a funding issue that the Dems could shoot down claiming a $1B deficit (that wasn't noticed until AFTER Owe'Malley was re-elected). She gathered very good data from Ken Brown who runs one of the more successful Utah CCW training courses and surprisingly very little from the MSP.
Del Dwyer was his regular 2A self, but its always great to hear him speak on our behalf. He did say that he didnt have a CCW, even though he could get one for just being a Delegate, and that he probably needed one due to his reputation and his day job. But, he didnt want his position to represent yet another we/they example.
Del. Kelly was the most succinct, even though he was in and out a number of times during testimony. He asked the MSP whether they had consulted with their fellow officers in surrounding states (with CCW) as to what additional burdens or expense that put on them in comparison to Maryland. Thats when the Lt. started with the habada, habada, habada explanations which continued pretty much till the end of his testimony. I think the answer he finally gave was something like; Yes, we have that data, and no I wont tell you what it is.
The set-up and execution was classic. Calling out Del Conaways fathers thrice denied-by-MSP CCW as a prime example of crony favoritism of the good and substantial non-criteria for one third of MDs CCW demographic, then ending MSPs testimony with an un-rolling the cumulative rap sheet of LEOs-with-a-record for the other third.
And We The People are of the great unwashed third.
Bookends to a perfect session ... Legislative theatre at it's best. I couldn't have bought a better ticket, or had one fixed for that matter.
Now, lets hope that it gets beyond Chairman Vallarios desk drawer.
Thanks for the AAR. Well done!
Thanks! Perhaps my argument would more effectively be used in conversations with antis, or non-believers.+1. Very, very well said.
Norton, I understand and respect your point. I am new to this battle and have a lot to learn. It was entertaining and enlightening yesterday to attend the festivities. Some of the comments from Dwyer were great, and Smigel was really on point. I even enjoyed the 'hippie' from NC who used sarcasm and insult to try to get the attention of the delegates (clearly you cannot be influenced by facts and logic) or something to that effect. Not sure if he had a positive impact, but it was a different tactic. My compliments to you and the others who testified, and who continue to fight this battle.
Ed
Something on another thread got me thinking. Maybe we need to repackage our argument. We could make it all sound as normal as a drivers license. In 40+ whatever states it is. Why can't we come in prove who we are. Pass a background check. Take a written test and maybe even a proficiency test just like we all do at the MVA. It is a perfectly normal thing for over 80% of Americans so what makes Marylanders less deserving?
- Status
