NFA Vs MD requirements

outobie · May 3, 2020

Hello looking for help understanding the class 3 rifles vs MD requirements.

while looking at silencer options for an AR 15 build I cam accross the below upper and was wondering if it would be legal in MD.

https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-suurg-kit/

it's a 14.5" barrel with the silencer pinned and welded to make the overall length 16".

alternatively, with a SBR NFA tax stamp does the barrel still need to be HBAR to be legal in MD?

thanks for the answers

lazarus · May 3, 2020

outobie said:
Hello looking for help understanding the class 3 rifles vs MD requirements.

while looking at silencer options for an AR 15 build I cam accross the below upper and was wondering if it would be legal in MD.

https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-suurg-kit/

it's a 14.5" barrel with the silencer pinned and welded to make the overall length 16".

alternatively, with a SBR NFA tax stamp does the barrel still need to be HBAR to be legal in MD?

thanks for the answers

If it’s an SBR tax stamp it doesn’t. But if it is pinned and welded to >16” it is not a two stamp item. It’s a single stamp for a silencer. So yes, it must be HBAR in that case. If it was pinned and welded shorter than 16” with the silencer it would make it a two stamp NFA item/SBR and the HBAR requirements would not apply

Squaregrouper · May 3, 2020

lazarus said:
If it’s an SBR tax stamp it doesn’t. But if it is pinned and welded to >16” it is not a two stamp item. It’s a single stamp for a silencer. So yes, it must be HBAR in that case. If it was pinned and welded shorter than 16” with the silencer it would make it a two stamp NFA item/SBR and the HBAR requirements would not apply

If purchased prior to 10/1/2013, the highlighted portion does not apply.

outrider58 · May 3, 2020

That's kind of weird. Lots of gyrations just to avoid a second stamp(or am I missing the mark)? I've seen versions where the 'birdcage' is pinned and the suppressor screws inside it. My personal take is, SBR the gun and buy the can you want(you'll be able to use that can on any number of guns that follow.

SBRs, whether pre or post ban, do not have to be Hbars.

outobie · May 3, 2020

Two stamps it is then

Thanks for the info!

For the barrel then, at what point do you get the stamp. When you purchase the barrel? Or when you assemble it into a rifle?, other?

Thanks again

Nickberg500 · May 4, 2020

Sorry to piggyback, but if another ban came about, and ARs were grandfathered with the features they had, how would that impact things if you wanted to swap your flash suppressor (the one evil feature present) for a sound suppressor? I know it's theoretical but I guess we can base it off other states that MD would copycat

babalou · May 4, 2020

integral suppressed upper

I purchased a Witt Machine 300 integral suppressed upper. 5 inch barrel with the rest the silencer, pinned and welded. Only one stamp for me since I made it into a rifle. No reason to SBR. if under 16" total then SBR and second stamp is correct.

cokebuck · May 4, 2020

outobie said:
Two stamps it is then

Thanks for the info!

For the barrel then, at what point do you get the stamp. When you purchase the barrel? Or when you assemble it into a rifle?, other?

Thanks again

You SBR your lower which has your serial number. Once you have your tax stamp you can put any barrel length on your lower (as long as OAL is 29" in MD)

babalou · May 4, 2020

unless

cokebuck said:
You SBR your lower which has your serial number. Once you have your tax stamp you can put any barrel length on your lower (as long as OAL is 29" in MD)

if he wants that LaRue integral suppressed upper that is another stamp..

Pinecone · May 4, 2020

outobie said:
For the barrel then, at what point do you get the stamp. When you purchase the barrel? Or when you assemble it into a rifle?, other?

Thanks again

There is a thing called constructive possession. So you do not want to have all the parts to assemble an SBR, but not have the parts to assemble a non-SBR version.

So, if you have a lower with a stock and an upper with a short barrel, but no rifle upper or no pistol lower, you could be charged.

outrider58 · May 4, 2020

Nickberg500 said:
Sorry to piggyback, but if another ban came about, and ARs were grandfathered with the features they had, how would that impact things if you wanted to swap your flash suppressor (the one evil feature present) for a sound suppressor? I know it's theoretical but I guess we can base it off other states that MD would copycat

They are virtually the same, in the guberments eyes. Both hide the flash signature. It's my understanding, at the outset of 2013 GSA, SBRs were banned. It wasn't til later that they were 're-allowed' with the stupid <29" rule. Someone with a clearer knowledge can correct me on this though.

The thing you might worry about is their next targets, telescopic stocks, detachable mags, etc.

Get while the getting is still good!

outobie · May 4, 2020

cokebuck said:
You SBR your lower which has your serial number. Once you have your tax stamp you can put any barrel length on your lower (as long as OAL is 29" in MD)

so I'll tax stamp my lower as an SBR...while i'm waiting for the SBR paperwork to go through, do I take possession of my lower or does my FFL keep it?

Can I use the lower with a regular 16" rifle upper while waiting to get the SBR stamp?

Silverlax · May 4, 2020

You can get a tax stamp for your lower. You can hold onto the lower in the meantime while waiting on the stamp. Do not build an SBR until the stamp shows up. If the lower hasn’t been assembled into a rifle configuration yet, you can build it into a pistol (but ONLY if it has never been a rifle) in the meantime. I am not a lawyer and this is not advice, only my opinion.

outrider58 · May 4, 2020

outobie said:
so I'll tax stamp my lower as an SBR...while i'm waiting for the SBR paperwork to go through, do I take possession of my lower or does my FFL keep it?

Can I use the lower with a regular 16" rifle upper while waiting to get the SBR stamp?

You buy and take possession of the lower from your FFL. His job ends there. At that point, you can build it into a pistol(recommended) and then, if you wish, a rifle. The lower is yours to build out.

You then apply on a Form 1 to "make a short barreled rifle". Others here can walk you through that process. The laws have changed since my last F1 and I am not qualified to assist in that.

erwos · May 4, 2020

outrider58 said:
It's my understanding, at the outset of 2013 GSA, SBRs were banned.

Nah, they were being approved throughout. The interpretation and application of the < 29" rule came later by the MSP/ATF, which put people in a weird situation where their approved < 29" SBRs were of now-dubious legality.

outobie · May 4, 2020

the more I read about this I'm beginning to think becoming my own FFL may make sense. it seems like FFL's are exempt from many of these silly new regulations

what are your thoughts on using a service like this https://rocketffl.com/ffl-requirements/ to become my own FFL with SOT? looks like a hassle but in the end I'll be fully legal and somewhat insulated from maryland restrictions and may even be able to assist others in my shooting club with transfers.

SkiPatrolDude · May 4, 2020

The whole "single tax stamp", referring to rifles that have integral suppressors which make the barrel 16 inches in length is moot in MD due to copycat laws. By pinning the suppressor you make it a nonhbar rifle that is banned under md law. I suppose if you could find a shorter barrel marked HBAR and then had a pinned suppressor, that might be OK.

The least convoluted option is just going to be to register as an SBR and then purchase suppressor separately, IE a two tax stamp item.

SkiPatrolDude · May 4, 2020

outobie said:
the more I read about this I'm beginning to think becoming my own FFL may make sense. it seems like FFL's are exempt from many of these silly new regulations

what are your thoughts on using a service like this https://rocketffl.com/ffl-requirements/ to become my own FFL with SOT? looks like a hassle but in the end I'll be fully legal and somewhat insulated from maryland restrictions and may even be able to assist others in my shooting club with transfers.

I've looked up becoming an FFL. The problem became zoning. I would not be able to operate an FFL out of my house. If you can swing a storefront or have a personal business address, perhaps this would be easier.

outrider58 · May 4, 2020

erwos said:
Nah, they were being approved throughout. The interpretation and application of the < 29" rule came later by the MSP/ATF, which put people in a weird situation where their approved < 29" SBRs were of now-dubious legality.

Thanks for the clarification. :thumbsup:

erwos · May 4, 2020

SkiPatrolDude said:
The whole "single tax stamp", referring to rifles that have integral suppressors which make the barrel 16 inches in length is moot in MD due to copycat laws. By pinning the suppressor you make it a nonhbar rifle that is banned under md law. I suppose if you could find a shorter barrel marked HBAR and then had a pinned suppressor, that might be OK

Correct. Single stamp AR-15s in MD don't net you much. It is mildly more helpful on guns like the Tavor/X95.

NFA Vs MD requirements

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