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Old July 24th, 2018, 10:22 AM #191
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Originally Posted by casualmadness View Post
Maybe one of the smartest posts I've read on MDS. You're right-Clinton was all about keeping the illegals out and welfare reform and even had his face on a confederate flag! But these days? No way that dog will hunt. Yes, the whole enchilada has moved left (can I say enchilada? Maybe that's racist.) I don't envy people in MD. I think Hogan is a first class turd and I would never support him. But I also recognize that Jealous is far worse. I'm glad I don't "have" to make the decision. Hey I'm in VA-I have my own shitty governor to deal with!
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Excellent post.
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excellent post.
Thank you, gentlemen. I'm occasionally capable of semi-coherent thought.

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No, they just simply pit us against each other. Maryland didn't become like this overnight, it will not change overnight. We were have to deal with the here and now. We need to groom candidates for the future at the same time. We have to get the Republican party to invest in Maryland. We have to explain rationally our positions. We have to take back the media and things like that which espouse to liberal ideas.
Behold the politics of fear.

"We have to vote for Trump/Romney/McCain because Hillary/Obama will destroy America!"

"Vote for Hillary/Obama or else Trump/Romney/McCain will start World War III!"

Sound familiar? It's the same argument from both "sides," just different names inserted over the years.

"Gotta vote for Hogan because Jealous will have us all on bread lines."

"Gotta vote for Jealous so he can restore the third world ghettos of this state into centers of cultural revolution."

If the cycle is allowed to continue, in part because voters refuse to see past the veneer of bullshit, when does the shining knight on the white horse come to our collective relief? It certainly won't be after the voters prove to the MDGOP that RINOs like Hogan are what the people want.


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When Hogan is the only "conservative" you are in serious trouble.

How did Maryland get to see Hogan as a Champion of Conservatism? By the republicans constantly voting for the candidate who bad, but not quite as bad as the other guy. At some point you need to take a stand and break that cycle. Until that point, it's 8 more years of slow decline at best and rapid decline at worst. I say 8 because Hogan winning now will ensure another RINO as a republican candidate in 2022.
Indeed. Come late June 2022 after our open Republican primary, there will be a chorus of people who will demand that we form in lockstep behind the gubernatorial nominee because he's what we've got, and the other guy will bring the third world ghettos to our doorstep. It's easy to see if you look for it.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 10:27 AM #192
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Getting a more conservative, more 2A-friendly candidate in this state is a non-starter. The populace rejects it. Those of us who can't leave must do what we can to hold the line while we work at changing hearts and minds on the individual level.

Fixing the districts would help, too, so that the swaths of conservative areas can actually see some real representation. Hogan may not be able to unilaterally redraw the districts, but perhaps he can get a bill passed that gives that authority to a non-partisan third party. Maybe he can do it before 2020. I know Jealous won't even try.

Unfortunately the governor's office is weak when held by an R thanks to our friends in the MGA. But the one-two punch of D governor plus D MGA would mean there's no point in trying anymore. As far as 2018 is concerned, it's Hogan or bust. Rejecting Hogan means, realistically, de facto Jealous. Why on earth would we think that's better? Sure, it would be great if a more conservative candidate had a chance. But that's not the reality we live in.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 10:29 AM #193
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He's more conservative than any other realistic option in MD, and letting MD citizens see an "R" by their governor's name might make it more palatable for them to pull the "R" lever in the future. Just because it's not as good as CO doesn't mean it's not a step forward for MD.

I understand how redistricting works, thanks. I'd rather have the slight possibility (hence "chance") of a map drawn by an R governor than the guarantee of a map drawn by a D, be it governor or MGA.

We managed to wrestle the governorship from the D's in 2014, and many here are getting ready to hand it right back over, giving back any ground we've covered in the last four years.
Might make it more palatable for some to vote for Hogan but not for all of us.
The -R- next to Hogan's name fooled some of us in '14, not going to fool us in '18.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 10:38 AM #194
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Originally Posted by MrsRab1515 View Post
Getting a more conservative, more 2A-friendly candidate in this state is a non-starter. The populace rejects it. Those of us who can't leave must do what we can to hold the line while we work at changing hearts and minds on the individual level.

Fixing the districts would help, too, so that the swaths of conservative areas can actually see some real representation. Hogan may not be able to unilaterally redraw the districts, but perhaps he can get a bill passed that gives that authority to a non-partisan third party. Maybe he can do it before 2020. I know Jealous won't even try.

Unfortunately the governor's office is weak when held by an R thanks to our friends in the MGA. But the one-two punch of D governor plus D MGA would mean there's no point in trying anymore. As far as 2018 is concerned, it's Hogan or bust. Rejecting Hogan means, realistically, de facto Jealous. Why on earth would we think that's better? Sure, it would be great if a more conservative candidate had a chance. But that's not the reality we live in.
Sounds like you already gave in and quit.

The irony is that a Jealous term or two will lead to more conservative republican candidates. Another Hogan term will lead to another left-shift and a moderate democrat running with an R next to his or her name. Jealous and Hogan will both drive the state left for the next 4 to 8 years, but Jealous might help the state swing a bit more right afterwards while Hogan will continue it to the left.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 10:42 AM #195
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Originally Posted by CrazySanMan View Post
Sounds like you already gave in and quit.

The irony is that a Jealous term or two will lead to more conservative republican candidates. Another Hogan term will lead to another left-shift and a moderate democrat running with an R next to his or her name. Jealous and Hogan will both drive the state left for the next 4 to 8 years, but Jealous might help the state swing a bit more right afterwards while Hogan will continue it to the left.
Hogan was a right swing after O'Malley.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 10:43 AM #196
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Perhaps you're right, im not infallible and im always willing to learn.

Does little r republicanism involve placing party over priciples? Does it involve giving up essential liberties? Maybe i am using the phrase the wrong way.
No, quite the opposite. What you describe is "big R" Republicanism.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 10:45 AM #197
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Originally Posted by MrsRab1515 View Post
Hogan was a right swing after O'Malley.
We'll agree to disagree on that. Hogan didn't swing as far left as Owe'Mao Li did so it makes it look like he's going right but as a whole I believe Hogan's actions have been more left of center.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 11:02 AM #198
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For many years and election cycles I fell for the fear-mongering put forth by the Republican party. Every election was the election of our lifetimes, and there would be dire consequences if I didnít vote for their candidate.


And after I helped elect those candidates to office, I watched our national debt skyrocket, watched the erosion of freedoms and essential liberties, saw new beaureacratic agencies created, saw them take us wars not of neccesity, but of choice, saw the tentacles of big, nanny state government further intrude into Americanís lives, and watched as they took the very same actions they told me the other, evil party was going to do.

I realized that there isnít a damn bit of difference between the two corrupt, major parties. Further, that the shell game they play canít exist without the other party acting as strawman. And we eat that shit like candy.

I have unshackeled myself from this enslavement. I no longer buy into their fear-mongering, and I vote the candidate that best
reflects my values and beliefs, regardless of party. It may be an R, it may be a L, and even occasionally itís a D.

I donít vote for candidates that infringe on essential liberties, and certainly not for ones that leverage that liberty for political gain, and then disregard it when a new political expediency is needed.

These type of people stand for nothing other than their own political power. They are traitors to the Constitution they took an oath to support and defend.

I have watched Hogan happily sign gun control bills into law surrounded by the gun-grabbers, stood by as he has not used techniques at his disposal that would ease burdens on 2A, has now stated that he would refuse an NRA endorsement, and has written an opinion piece touting his desire for deeper, and further infringements on the 2A.

I donít know exactly who Iíll be voting for, but pretty sure Iíve ruled out a couple of candidates so far.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 11:08 AM #199
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Originally Posted by NatBoh View Post
For many years and election cycles I fell for the fear-mongering put forth by the Republican party. Every election was the election of our lifetimes, and there would be dire consequences if I didnít vote for their candidate.


And after I helped elect those candidates to office, I watched our national debt skyrocket, watched the erosion of freedoms and essential liberties, saw new beaureacratic agencies created, saw them take us wars not of neccesity, but of choice, saw the tentacles of big, nanny state government further intrude into Americanís lives, and watched as they took the very same actions they told me the other, evil party was going to do.

I realized that there isnít a damn bit of difference between the two corrupt, major parties. Further, that the shell game they play canít exist without the other party acting as strawman. And we eat that shit like candy.

I have unshackeled myself from this enslavement. I no longer buy into their fear-mongering, and I vote the candidate that best
reflects my values and beliefs, regardless of party. It may be an R, it may be a L, and even occasionally itís a D.

I donít vote for candidates that infringe on essential liberties, and certainly not for ones that leverage that liberty for political gain, and then disregard it when a new political expediency is needed.

These type of people stand for nothing other than their own political power. They are traitors to the Constitution they took an oath to support and defend.

I have watched Hogan happily sign gun control bills into law surrounded by the gun-grabbers, stood by as he has not used techniques at his disposal that would ease burdens on 2A, has now stated that he would refuse an NRA endorsement, and has written an opinion piece touting his desire for deeper, and further infringements on the 2A.

I donít know exactly who Iíll be voting for, but pretty sure Iíve ruled out a couple of candidates so far.
Get out of my head!

We're on the exact same wavelength.
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Old July 24th, 2018, 11:20 AM #200
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Originally Posted by NatBoh View Post

I have watched Hogan happily sign gun control bills into law surrounded by the gun-grabbers, stood by as he has not used techniques at his disposal that would ease burdens on 2A, has now stated that he would refuse an NRA endorsement, and has written an opinion piece touting his desire for deeper, and further infringements on the 2A.

I don’t know exactly who I’ll be voting for, .

^^This.
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