Triggers,

copasetic · Nov 19, 2018

clandestine said:
The advice on polishing and springs is for a paper puncher at best.

Putting in light springs or things like kns pins cause inconsistent lock time and hurts accuracy. It may "feel" better but it's not an improvement.

If you want reliability and performance there are 2 choices. Geissele and LaRue.

Use the heavier springs in the LaRue.

Those who say Geissele or LaRue is unreliable should not be heeded.

I have been lurking on this site long enough to know that you know your stuff... can you give a bit more detail about putting the heavier spring on the LaRue? When comparing side by side the Larue was very similar to the Geissele, so I did not even consider using the other spring in the box. Thanks

clandestine · Nov 19, 2018

copasetic said:
I have been lurking on this site long enough to know that you know your stuff... can you give a bit more detail about putting the heavier spring on the LaRue? When comparing side by side the Larue was very similar to the Geissele, so I did not even consider using the other spring in the box. Thanks

Certainly and thank you.

The LaRue MBT Triggers come with 2 trigger springs. If you use the lighter of the 2 you may experience a failure to reset for the trigger.

Failures to reset is usually due to people using KNS Pins, or having Hammer/Trigger Pins that don't properly float in the lower.

When this happens you can cause the trigger to reset by bumping the safety, which will force the trigger to reset forward.

If the gun is properly lubricated and the pins float properly, the lighter trigger springs is ok, but if the gun gets heavily fouled you may see issues, may being rare but possible.

clandestine · Nov 19, 2018

DivingDriver said:
Second a LaRue trigger. 87 bucks on sale right now. Can't be beat. For the record I have 3 others that I will use on future builds.

They really are fantastic triggers. A comparable geissele is double the cost.

andy41567 · Nov 20, 2018

Well thanks guys. I leaned a lot in this thread and use some of the information to go out and buy a few things.
For the trigger I got a rise armament RA-434 drop in and I love it.
I also bought a new upper and bolt carrier group with a 1-8 twist and floating rail with a shawn Burkholder muzzle brake. Will be shooting this setup on Saturday.

teratos · Nov 20, 2018

clandestine said:
Those who say Geissele or LaRue is unreliable should not be heeded.

Um....SF use Geissele triggers..... :innocent0

clandestine · Nov 20, 2018

I see issues with RA triggers more than I can count. I hope you have better success.

303_enfield · Nov 20, 2018

teratos said:
Um....SF use Geissele triggers.....

Select fire ones. Common people will be much, much better off with Larue.

teratos · Nov 20, 2018

303_enfield said:
Select fire ones. Common people will be much, much better off with Larue.

I have a Larue to install on an upcoming build. Looking forward to using it.

Alwayscarry5267 · Nov 21, 2018

I'm running a POF 3.5 lbs trigger in my ar10. I've never had any issues with it.

KYtoMD · Nov 25, 2018

Some pretty good sales this week. Geissele G2S for $99 for Cyber Monday. Heck, even their top-end Hi-Speed National Match is only $195, which is really tempting my wallet.

woodline · Nov 25, 2018

clandestine said:
The advice on polishing and springs is for a paper puncher at best.

Putting in light springs or things like kns pins cause inconsistent lock time and hurts accuracy. It may "feel" better but it's not an improvement.

If you want reliability and performance there are 2 choices. Geissele and LaRue.

Use the heavier springs in the LaRue.

Those who say Geissele or LaRue is unreliable should not be heeded.

Just to be contrarian, I HAVE seen a Geissele SINGLE stage trigger in a suppressed (but not tuned for said suppressor) AR15 choke after getting fouled up with like 500-600 rounds. But since I know you are specifically recommending their SSA or SSA-E TWO stage triggers, I realize my point of contention lacks in validity.

One other thing that is tangentially related to the above halfhearted poke at the AR bear (Chad): I personally don't give Geissele an automatic go on all their triggers just because SOF and other organizations use the Geissele Super Select Fire trigger. Geissele generally makes fantastic products, but outside of that specific trigger setup I don't automatically assume everything they make is going to be as reliable as that one. If a subject matter expert gives a specific recommendation, take it at face value but don't automatically generalize to other stuff made by that company.

The most important thing is when are we going to see Chad start offering to mod AKs from Piston to DI?

teratos · Nov 25, 2018

fbi_surveillance_van said:
Just to be contrarian, I HAVE seen a Geissele SINGLE stage trigger in a suppressed (but not tuned for said suppressor) AR15 choke after getting fouled up with like 500-600 rounds. But since I know you are specifically recommending their SSA or SSA-E TWO stage triggers, I realize my point of contention lacks in validity.

One other thing that is tangentially related to the above halfhearted poke at the AR bear (Chad): I personally don't give Geissele an automatic go on all their triggers just because SOF and other organizations use the Geissele Super Select Fire trigger. Geissele generally makes fantastic products, but outside of that specific trigger setup I don't automatically assume everything they make is going to be as reliable as that one. If a subject matter expert gives a specific recommendation, take it at face value but don't automatically generalize to other stuff made by that company.

The most important thing is when are we going to see Chad start offering to mod AKs from Piston to DI?

Ummmm. In a suppressed 9mm, the problem is NOT the trigger after 5-600 rounds. That’s retarded.

You identified the problem in your post.

clandestine · Nov 25, 2018

fbi_surveillance_van said:
Just to be contrarian, I HAVE seen a Geissele SINGLE stage trigger in a suppressed (but not tuned for said suppressor) AR15 choke after getting fouled up with like 500-600 rounds. But since I know you are specifically recommending their SSA or SSA-E TWO stage triggers, I realize my point of contention lacks in validity.

One other thing that is tangentially related to the above halfhearted poke at the AR bear (Chad): I personally don't give Geissele an automatic go on all their triggers just because SOF and other organizations use the Geissele Super Select Fire trigger. Geissele generally makes fantastic products, but outside of that specific trigger setup I don't automatically assume everything they make is going to be as reliable as that one. If a subject matter expert gives a specific recommendation, take it at face value but don't automatically generalize to other stuff made by that company.

The most important thing is when are we going to see Chad start offering to mod AKs from Piston to DI?

I agree that not all Geissele triggers are good. I oversimplified my comments there. I hate single stage triggers in an AR, even geissele. I don't like their high speed adjustable either, but to be fair, those are not usually in a suppressed blaster.

Geissele makes things the public wants and sometimes what the public wants is just dumb, like G.P. AR Conversions

woodline · Nov 26, 2018

clandestine said:
I agree that not all Geissele triggers are good. I oversimplified my comments there. I hate single stage triggers in an AR, even geissele. I don't like their high speed adjustable either, but to be fair, those are not usually in a suppressed blaster.

Geissele makes things the public wants and sometimes what the public wants is just dumb, like G.P. AR Conversions

Remember when I asked you about the KE arms trigger? Specifically due to the InRangeTV love for it? Today I watched their "test" of M855A1 and the first thing that came to mind as I watching it was your response that InRangeTV is all over the place sometimes (seriously the test they did was pretty much like "why can't this snowcone machine blow enough shaved ice to put out the sun, it is crap"). I happen to have significant personal experience when it comes to the design requirements for as well as the terminal effects of various types of 5.56 ammo and let's just say that it really framed our previous conversation.

TLDR: If you can afford it, get a reliable two stage trigger for any AR you expect to depend upon for hard use.

woodline · Nov 26, 2018

teratos said:
Ummmm. In a suppressed 9mm, the problem is NOT the trigger after 5-600 rounds. That’s retarded.

You identified the problem in your post.

Interestingly enough, the same upper worked well with a hiperfire competition trigger well past the Geissele failure point. Why were we trying to replicate results of an old TTAG clickbait article? Don't worry about it, competition rifle is perfect now.

Magnumite · Nov 27, 2018

" I HAVE seen a Geissele SINGLE stage trigger in a suppressed (but not tuned for said suppressor) AR15 choke after getting fouled up with like 500-600 rounds"

How did the trigger choke - symptoms?

clandestine · Nov 27, 2018

Magnumite said:
" I HAVE seen a Geissele SINGLE stage trigger in a suppressed (but not tuned for said suppressor) AR15 choke after getting fouled up with like 500-600 rounds"

How did the trigger choke - symptoms?

I can't speak for him, but usually single stage triggers fail because of fouling or gassing issues.

Single stage triggers usually have springs that function on the edge of reliability when clean and well lubricated.

An overgassed gun is hard on the disconnect and the entire FCG depending on the hammer design. If the hammer is blown back fast enough it will slap the FCG components. This can cause accelerated wear which leads to failures because there is no room for play/error in a single stage.

IME, aftermarket single stage triggers and lightened springs have no place in an AR unless it's a gamer gun, and even then I still say they are foolish. Many people reply back, well why do they make them? Well because companies make what people want, even when it's a bad idea.

Magnumite · Nov 27, 2018

Thanks for the reply. So are the failures typically failure to fire? Do they fail the other way, dumping a mag?

I tend to run stock strength springs or heavier than competition game springs with one exception. I focus more on the trigger pull quality, which is of greater importance in my experience, than the weight of pull. I did have on aftermarket single stage trigger and liked it for carbine use. I did replace it for a two stage since the rifle was set up in an older SPR or DMR configuration. But all are unsuppressed so I can't vouch for reliability in that guise. Thank you for the information just in case I go the suppressed route.

smokey · Nov 27, 2018

My favorite is "there are only two genders".

clandestine · Nov 27, 2018

Magnumite said:
Thanks for the reply. So are the failures typically failure to fire? Do they fail the other way, dumping a mag?

I tend to run stock strength springs or heavier than competition game springs with one exception. I focus more on the trigger pull quality, which is of greater importance in my experience, than the weight of pull. I did have on aftermarket single stage trigger and liked it for carbine use. I did replace it for a two stage since the rifle was set up in an older SPR or DMR configuration. But all are unsuppressed so I can't vouch for reliability in that guise. Thank you for the information just in case I go the suppressed route.

They fail differently. Some won't allow the trigger to reset, amd some won't release from the disconnect. Some just fail to fire, and some release the hammer when releasing the trigger or double, and some just allow uncontrolled bursts.

Trigger feel is very deceptive and is what causes people to gravitate towards single stage triggers. Trigger weight on an AR can be good, but it can have slow lock time. Which negates having a light trigger. There has to be a balance and few companies do both and retain reliability under non bench conditions.

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