Bubba Really Got To This 03

mawkie · Aug 8, 2014

There was a glut of 1903 & 1903A3 parts on the market after the war. Enough that National Ordnance and Santa Fe were building both military clones and sporting rifles from them through the sixties. Still run across NOS barrels and such at auctions. As a collector I much prefer this approach if at all possible. Nothing of historical significance gets destroyed and the 'smith is working with new, safe components (don't think I would want to purchase a sporting rifle built from an early, brittle 1903 receiver!).
Very handsome rifle. Somebody did a nice job with it.

Augie · Aug 8, 2014

Agree, made sure it was not an early receiver, if it had been I would have passed.

trickg · Aug 9, 2014

So here's a question. Is there a point when we stop referring to them as sportered military rifles, specifically with Mausers or 03s, and just start calling them nice rifles?

It sounds kinda dumb, but when all that's left is the basic action, even if that action started off military, there isn't much to distinguish it as military anymore.

In the case of my 25-06 Mauser, there is very little left of the original rifle. The barrel is gone, the bolt handle is gone, the magazine well was cut down so the rifle would have a slimmer profile and the stock was worked for the rifle specifically.

BlackBart · Aug 9, 2014

Augie said:
Agree, made sure it was not an early receiver, if it had been I would have passed.

Someone with that talent would have known better in all probability. You got a beautiful rifle in that one.

trickg · Aug 9, 2014

As a side note to this thread, I just can't get over how perfect I think that rifle is. I love everything about it - the sleek lines, the glorious wood and finish of the stock, the marvelous checkering and above all, the cartridge. After reading about the 35 Whelen and 35 Whelen Ackley Improved, I know that I will one day own a rifle in that chambering. It has to be a go-to for everything from deer to elk. Maybe a bit big for deer, but definitely usable.

If you ever get a hankering to sell it, look me up. I say that will all sincerity and seriousness.

Augie · Aug 9, 2014

Good question, I do not consider the top of the line guns sporterized, I would consider them custom made rifles that the builder chose to use a military surplus action.
Between the wars and after WW2 there was a plentiful supply of strong military actions available, it cut costs down to use the action,however a lot of the higher end guns where cost was no object still used them because they were quality strong actions. There was also a plentiful supply of barrels in 30-06 that could be recontoured into a custom sporting rifle. The vast majority of vintage sporters are in 30-06.
In the case of my rifle and yours I call them customs, when I posted my rifle I wasn't sure whether to post in the C&R or rifle section, kind go figured more viewers would appreciate it in the C&R.
Here is a link to Michael Petrov's site who unfortunately passed, considered to be the expert on Custom vintage sporting rifles, some amazing rifles are pictured.
http://finegunmaking.com/page33/page26/page26.html

Augie · Aug 13, 2014

trickg said:
As a side note to this thread, I just can't get over how perfect I think that rifle is. I love everything about it - the sleek lines, the glorious wood and finish of the stock, the marvelous checkering and above all, the cartridge. After reading about the 35 Whelen and 35 Whelen Ackley Improved, I know that I will one day own a rifle in that chambering. It has to be a go-to for everything from deer to elk. Maybe a bit big for deer, but definitely usable.

If you ever get a hankering to sell it, look me up. I say that will all sincerity and seriousness.

Somehow I missed this post, probably because I was typing the other one and it takes me forever,
The Whelen and Whelen Improved are highly thought of by experienced hunters, very good knock down power and accuracy, also apparently shoots flat out to 275 yards or so. can be loaded down for deer or hog or up for Elk and Moose.
It will be fun working up brass and loads for this cartridge, have dies on the way,will use both 35 Whelen brass and neck up some 30-06 to use.
One thing I found out about the rifle is the stock appears to be a Fajen Aristocrat stock, If finished by Fajen in the late 70's or early 80's it would have been a 500.00 or so stock which in todays dollars would be 2000.00. I suspect it was finished by the local stocker due to the quality of checkering and the tight inletting, the Mcgowen barrel is a heavier profile and would not fit in a standard channel.
You will be first on the list if I ever need to sell.

Vile Shadow · Aug 17, 2014

That was definitely well-done. I like it. :thumbsup:

trickg · Sep 23, 2014

I keep coming back to this thread to ogle this rifle. If you EVER get a hankering to sell that (yeah, not likely!) let me know. I swear, I think that this is pretty much the closest thing to an ultimate sporting/hunting rifle that I have ever seen.

Augie said:
You will be first on the list if I ever need to sell.

Edit: OOPS! I actually missed this!

Machodoc · Sep 23, 2014

Augie said:
Good question, I do not consider the top of the line guns sporterized, I would consider them custom made rifles that the builder chose to use a military surplus action.

I tend to agree with you, but there are so VERY few craftsmen around who can pull off a work of art like the one you own, that I really hesitate to seem to endorse that today. I've yet to see a modern attempt at high-end customization that didn't look like plast-o-crap. I'm sure that there are those who are still capable of doing it, but they are a rare breed.

BigDaddy · Sep 23, 2014

No Bubba to be seen here. Nice rifle.

Back in the day, there used to be a lot fewer choice in building a rifle around an action and a lot fewer high end manufactures like Kimber H-S, Cooper. When 03's and mausers sold for less than $50 no one imagined an untouched version would sell for hundreds.

BlackBart · Sep 23, 2014

BigDaddy said:
No Bubba to be seen here. Nice rifle.

Back in the day, there used to be a lot fewer choice in building a rifle around an action and a lot fewer high end manufactures like Kimber H-S, Cooper. When 03's and mausers sold for less than $50 no one imagined an untouched version would sell for hundreds.

The "Good old days". :sad20:

As a kid I had a welded shut, plugged bolt... probably a 1917 because it weighed a ton to me that the old man bought at Sunny's literally for a couple bucks for us to "play army" with. I think I eventually got tired of lugging it around and just left it in the woods.

BigDaddy · Sep 23, 2014

Wow looks like the Johnson was the best deal, over time.

Vile Shadow · Sep 23, 2014

Wow. $80 dollar Garands. Thanks Bart. :envy:

You sure know how to make a man wanna climb into a time machine.

trickg · Sep 23, 2014

Sling Blade said:
Wow. $80 dollar Garands. Thanks Bart.

You sure know how to make a man wanna climb into a time machine.

Yeah, but that was also back when $80 was worth a touch more than it is now.

BlackBart · Sep 23, 2014

trickg said:
Yeah, but that was also back when $80 was worth a touch more than it is now.

True, that was back when the average Joe made maybe $160.00 a week, the average today still doesn't make $1500.00. (CMP x 2 rifles) just for perspective. Garands if one could have afforded the 80 bucks would have been a good investment, Johnson's even better!

Machodoc · Sep 24, 2014

trickg said:
Yeah, but that was also back when $80 was worth a touch more than it is now.

BlackBart said:
True, that was back when the average Joe made maybe $160.00 a week, the average today still doesn't make $1500.00. (CMP x 2 rifles) just for perspective. Garands if one could have afforded the 80 bucks would have been a good investment, Johnson's even better!

And a young E3-E5 in the USN was making about $200-250 a month ... including hazardous duty and sea pay. I used to lust after those "buys" back then, but with car and insurance payments, they were out of reach.

Augie · Sep 24, 2014

Machodoc said:
I tend to agree with you, but there are so VERY few craftsmen around who can pull off a work of art like the one you own, that I really hesitate to seem to endorse that today. I've yet to see a modern attempt at high-end customization that didn't look like plast-o-crap. I'm sure that there are those who are still capable of doing it, but they are a rare breed.

Did a quick search and could find no custom rifle maker advertising that they used surplus military actions anymore, I'm sure there are still some that will do it but almost all are using commercial high end actions now. A lot do use synthetic stocks but there are quite a few using high grade wood, those rifles look to start at 10k or so and go up from there, kind of makes a wood stock Cooper at 2500 to 5000 look like a bargain.
Got the rifle out to the range and mechanically functions perfect, I have some issues with the scope mounting that makes me believe the rifle was never sighted in. The base is a windage adjustable Redfield and it was jammed all the way to the right with the left windage screw buggered, scope adjustments were at their limits, have ordered a new screw and centered the scope, will take it back out to zero it correctly. Have run into this before, apparently the windage adjustable bases can really confuse people.
Love this 35 Whelen and the Improved version, easy to make from 30-06 brass, the Redfield die set I bought open the case neck up so smooth it just feels like regular resizing. The Improved chamber will fire the necked up 30-06, factory 35 Whelen or the 35 Whelen Improved once fire formed.
Maybe it's the design of the stock or the weight of the rifle but recoil was no worse than a light 30-06 rifle even with 250 grain bullets.
Here are some pics of the cartridge, 30-06 brass,necked up 30-06 brass, 35 Whelen brass, 30-06 cartridge, 35 Whelen Cartridge and 35 Whelen Improved cartridge after fire forming and reloading. One advantage of the Improved is case stretch is supposed to be almost nonexistent due to the sharp shoulder it headspaces on.
Trickg,your first on the list but I think it's a keeper

BlackBart · Sep 24, 2014

Machodoc said:
And a young E3-E5 in the USN was making about $200-250 a month ... including hazardous duty and sea pay. I used to lust after those "buys" back then, but with car and insurance payments, they were out of reach.

A real "treat" way back was a 25 cent burger at the NAS Memphis geedunk. I was clearing something like 82 bucks a month with 40 of that going home for a savings allotment. The pinball machines were a nickle a game so pissing away a buck could be hours of entertainment. :lol2:

I bought a Remington 582 .22 rifle used at either Bart's or Stammer's years ago for about 20 bucks. Great gun and kept it until maybe 7 or 8 years ago and parted it out on Ebay for 10X what I paid circa 1970ish.

Probably should have kept it.

trickg · Sep 24, 2014

Augie said:
Trickg,your first on the list but I think it's a keeper

I completely understand - if it was mine, it would be an heirloom to be passed down through the generations - I'd never let it go.

My Mauser G98 sporter is one heck of a gun and beautiful in its own way, but as nice as it is, it's not quite in the same caliber as yours. Either way, mine is here to stay because regardless of the fact that my Dad was the smith who built it, it's still a glorious, very usable rifle.

Bubba Really Got To This 03

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