My 9mm AR was filthy

bfoosh006 · Aug 25, 2017

outrider58 said:
No. Mine tend to be a little sooty, just as any case from any suppressed gun would be. Those show signs of something more(to me, but I don't know the cause). It looks like out of battery firing but I'm only guessing. That charring seems extreme to me.

I have found that the soot is from it just being dirty burning.

A lot of my cases looked like that from my 129 different rds chrono test. Bullet weight or velocity did not matter ( in context to the soot ) in my carbine.

Frankly the whole test was VERY enlightening ( and quite a task, Lol )

Some cheap ammo had dismal feeding ( even some FMJ's ), high bullet setback rates ( aluminum cases ), horrible accuracy ( YMMV) and truly pathetic velocities.

On the other hand, "Wolf" type ammo produced very respectable velocities but were filthy burning... If memory serves me right at about 800 fired rds, with no cleaning... the carbine wouldn't feed 100% of the time.

That is when I realized that clean burning ammo would be important in a total "SHTF" scenario... when you may not have time for good preventative maintenance.

outrider58 · Aug 25, 2017

bfoosh006 said:
I have found that the soot is from it just being dirty burning.

A lot of my cases looked like that from my 129 different rds chrono test. Bullet weight or velocity did not matter ( in context to the soot ) in my carbine.

Frankly the whole test was VERY enlightening ( and quite a task, Lol )

Some cheap ammo had dismal feeding ( even some FMJ's ), high bullet setback rates ( aluminum cases ), horrible accuracy ( YMMV) and truly pathetic velocities.

On the other hand, "Wolf" type ammo produced very respectable velocities but were filthy burning... If memory serves me right at about 800 fired rds, with no cleaning... the carbine wouldn't feed 100% of the time.

That is when I realized that clean burning ammo would be important in a total "SHTF" scenario... when you may not have time for good preventative maintenance.

ALL of my 9mm AR experience is based on 147g reloads using multiple bullets and generally speaking, 3.4 grains of Titegroup. It seems that 3.4 is very near supersonic so my future plan is to drop it down a bit. I need to chrono though.

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boss281 · Aug 25, 2017

All I can tell you is that the SuperClean and WinClean produced spent brass that were almost mirror clean compared to the standard winchester whitebox, and is my go to from this point forward. I'm ordering a couple of thousand rounds of it next paycheck. Meanwhile, I'll try that 124g NATO stuff that I mistakenly bought and run 50 rounds to get a feel for it. I'll likely sell the remaining 450 rds dirt cheap...

bfoosh006, you ever split a casing like I did as shown in the pic above^^^? In tens of thousands of rounds of 5.56 and a few thousand 9mm, I've never had that happen that I know of. I usually inspect about 50% of my brass out of habit, so I would think I would have run across that from time to time...

boss281 · Aug 25, 2017

outrider58 said:
ALL of my 9mm AR experience is based on 147g reloads using multiple bullets and generally speaking, 3.4 grains of Titegroup. It seems that 3.4 is very near supersonic so my future plan is to drop it down a bit. I need to chrono though.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

You shoot at the AGC? I've been thinking of buying a chrono, and I'm usually at the range 1-2x a week (retirement does that to you).

I still have those Magpul 9mm mag assists in an unopened package if interested. I've yet to try them...

j_h_smith · Aug 25, 2017

outrider58 said:
Here's some brass from my last outing...

That's what expect to see. At least that's the way mine come out of my 9mm ARs. The other pictures 9Boss281) indicated much more filth. Which in my mind indicates a little lighter than needed buffer or possibly a light buffer spring. My way of thinking is that the bolt is starting it's travel before the gunpowder has time to burn off while the bullet is going down the barrel. The bolt needs more time to allow the powder to burn. This will affect the reliability of the firearm too.

Something's not right with the other 9mm AR. Way too much filth on those cases in my opinion.

j_h_smith · Aug 25, 2017

outrider58 said:
ALL of my 9mm AR experience is based on 147g reloads using multiple bullets and generally speaking, 3.4 grains of Titegroup. It seems that 3.4 is very near supersonic so my future plan is to drop it down a bit. I need to chrono though.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I have found that my 9mm ARs don't like to shoot 115gr and are picky on what 124gr will shoot reliably. But the 147 seem to be the best in all of mine, carbines and pistols. Of course, a little work with the mags may be needed when I buy a new mag.

All in all, I'm very happy with my 147 gr ammo (reloads and factory), so that's all I put through my 9mm AR firearms.

YMMV

bfoosh006 · Aug 25, 2017

outrider58 said:
ALL of my 9mm AR experience is based on 147g reloads using multiple bullets and generally speaking, 3.4 grains of Titegroup. It seems that 3.4 is very near supersonic so my future plan is to drop it down a bit. I need to chrono though.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Interesting.

None of my rounds were fired suppressed... so I certainly lack any experience with those cases.

On a separate subject, do you run your suppressor "wet" or dry ?

My friend is heck bent on running his MPX greased... man that is smoky !

He uses ALG Go Juice as a lube ... very easy clean up.

boss281 · Aug 25, 2017

j_h_smith said:
That's what expect to see. At least that's the way mine come out of my 9mm ARs. The other pictures 9Boss281) indicated much more filth. Which in my mind indicates a little lighter than needed buffer or possibly a light buffer spring. My way of thinking is that the bolt is starting it's travel before the gunpowder has time to burn off while the bullet is going down the barrel. The bolt needs more time to allow the powder to burn. This will affect the reliability of the firearm too.

Something's not right with the other 9mm AR. Way too much filth on those cases in my opinion.

You say light buffer spring. It's the original buffer and spring from 1995. The rifle hasn't had a single part changed out from purchase. I even have the original colt mags (5 32rds and 2 20rds) and only one is giving me fits hold a full magazine worth of rounds. Given the age I think it's done well. That said, perhaps the spring is getting a bit worn and has too much give. It's been recommended to me privately I consider a new spring, and a heavier buffer. I know the spring I will try, just trying to decide the approach for the buffer...

bfoosh006 · Aug 25, 2017

boss281 said:
All I can tell you is that the SuperClean and WinClean produced spent brass that were almost mirror clean compared to the standard winchester whitebox, and is my go to from this point forward. I'm ordering a couple of thousand rounds of it next paycheck. Meanwhile, I'll try that 124g NATO stuff that I mistakenly bought and run 50 rounds to get a feel for it. I'll likely sell the remaining 450 rds dirt cheap...

bfoosh006, you ever split a casing like I did as shown in the pic above^^^? In tens of thousands of rounds of 5.56 and a few thousand 9mm, I've never had that happen that I know of. I usually inspect about 50% of my brass out of habit, so I would think I would have run across that from time to time...

I would worry about , unless it happens with numerous different brands.

Every manufacturer has a bad case now and then.... if the rest of those specific rounds keep splitting and only that batch.. then contact the manufacturer.

And yes, I have had various split necks over the years.

You "might" have a looser chamber from years of use...

j_h_smith · Aug 25, 2017

boss281 said:
You say light buffer spring. It's the original buffer and spring from 1995. The rifle hasn't had a single part changed out from purchase. I even have the original colt mags (5 32rds and 2 20rds) and only one is giving me fits hold a full magazine worth of rounds. Given the age I think it's done well. That said, perhaps the spring is getting a bit worn and has too much give. It's been recommended to me privately I consider a new spring, and a heavier buffer. I know the spring I will try, just trying to decide the approach for the buffer...

The spring would be a good start. How heavy is your buffer?

boss281 · Aug 25, 2017

Jim Smith, the buffer is the original 5.5oz (this guy http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SP62913). I'm ordering the Tubbs .308 spring and a new OEM buffer to start. It's not yet clear if the buffer weight/length need to be fine tuned.

Also saw this on the same vendor website. I've never heard of this in all these years: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SP400211 .

outrider58 · Aug 25, 2017

boss281 said:
You say light buffer spring. It's the original buffer and spring from 1995. The rifle hasn't had a single part changed out from purchase. I even have the original colt mags (5 32rds and 2 20rds) and only one is giving me fits hold a full magazine worth of rounds. Given the age I think it's done well. That said, perhaps the spring is getting a bit worn and has too much give. It's been recommended to me privately I consider a new spring, and a heavier buffer. I know the spring I will try, just trying to decide the approach for the buffer...

4000 rounds on a standard buffer spring is about max. Time for a Tubb's AR 10 spring and an H3 buffer maybe. I can't hurt.

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j_h_smith · Aug 25, 2017

boss281 said:
Jim Smith, the buffer is the original 5.5oz (this guy http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SP62913). I'm ordering the Tubbs .308 spring and a new OEM buffer to start. It's not yet clear if the buffer weight/length need to be fine tuned.

Also saw this on the same vendor website. I've never heard of this in all these years: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SP400211 .

You can do the same thing with about $2.50 in quarters. It's an old trick.

j_h_smith · Aug 25, 2017

outrider58 said:
4000 rounds on a standard buffer spring is about max. Time for a Tubb's AR 10 spring and an H3 buffer maybe. I can't hurt.

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I agree. All of mine have extra stiff springs and H3 buffers.

boss281 · Aug 25, 2017

j_h_smith said:
I agree. All of mine have extra stiff springs and H3 buffers.

I'm going to get another OEM Colt 9mm buffer since it's heavier than the H3 by just a tad, and see if the heavier spring helps with all that blow by. This old 6450 rifle has a second life in it for sure.

I'm going to call Colt on Monday to see what the spec is on the spring and buffer in the newer 6951 carbine. I can't believe my bolt catch broke on the 30th round through a new rifle...

j_h_smith · Aug 25, 2017

boss281 said:
I'm going to get another OEM Colt 9mm buffer since it's heavier than the H3 by just a tad, and see if the heavier spring helps with all that blow by. This old 6450 rifle has a second life in it for sure.

I'm going to call Colt on Monday to see what the spec is on the spring and buffer in the newer 6951 carbine. I can't believe my bolt catch broke on the 30th round through a new rifle...

Defective part for sure.

Good Luck!

j_h_smith · Aug 25, 2017

I just remembered I have this chart. Maybe someone can use the information. Disregard the prices, this is just a chart from a manufacturer.

boss281 · Aug 25, 2017

Great reference. Here's the link: http://www.heavybuffers.com/reference.html . Nice find man...

bfoosh006 · Aug 26, 2017

Here are some spring weight measurements from David Tubbs... just food for thought.

A2 (old) - 7.6lb closed, 14.5lb open
A2 (new) - 9.1lb closed, 16.7lb open
Tubb Flatwire - 10.5lb closed, 16.3lb open
Tubb .308 Flatwire - 13lb closed, 16.7lb open
SpringCo White ? (standard) - 8.3lb closed, 16.3lb open
SpringCo Red (extra) - 10.5lb closed, 18.4lb open
SpringCo Orange (increased) - 13.9lb closed, 24.8lb open

jimbobborg · Aug 27, 2017

Bolt catches get broken quite often on these carbines, especially if you're using a milspec catch. IIRC most complete 9mm lowers have a beefier version.

And at this point, I'm going to have to get some professional help on my 9mm. Mags that work fine one day jam up the next. I'm wondering if it's the bolt itself that's causing this? Even one of my ASC mags that was working fine acted up.

My 9mm AR was filthy

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