HB1261 - Weapon Crimes - Assault Long Guns and Copycat Weapons

Squaregrouper · Feb 14, 2020

willtill said:
We talked about this several pages ago in this thread.

I know Kyle is most likely visiting MSP today in Pikesville for info on how to obtain firearm record registration from them. I just offer a little more while we wait for his experiences.

I did use the Public Information request form in the link above requesting my records as well. I sent the web form to them Wednesday (two days ago) and received a response from them stating that they have located my records. However due to the sensitive information contained within them, they gave me the email address of a First Sergeant to which I am to make an appointment for a date and time to pick up a copy.

This letter is to inform you that the Maryland State Police has located the records relevant to your request. Due to the sensitive, protected nature of information, we require that you make arrangements to pick up the records in person. To schedule a date and time for pick up, please contact xxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx. The First Sergeant may be contacted via email at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx

I got the same email. I will (hopefully) pick mine up in an hour or so.

MJD438 · Feb 14, 2020

Bob A said:
Join MSI (Maryland Shall Issue). They need it for the lawsuits they are bringing against the state for various infringements. They're the only ones fighting exclusively for MD in the courts. While you're at it, send as much as you can afford. Those lawsuits are expensive. (They're all-volunteer, and their President is a lawyer, but there are fees and expert witnesses who don't come cheap).

https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/index.php

Yup, the only ones... not like MSRPA being a named plaintiff on a case that is at SCOTUS awaiting review...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Bob A · Feb 14, 2020

MJD438 said:
Yup, the only ones... not like MSRPA being a named plaintiff on a case that is at SCOTUS awaiting review...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Haven't heard anything substanttial about MSRPA. Feel free to spread the news, in as much detail as you can muster.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Inspector1489 · Feb 14, 2020

Bob A said:
Join MSI (Maryland Shall Issue). They need it for the lawsuits they are bringing against the state for various infringements. They're the only ones fighting exclusively for MD in the courts. While you're at it, send as much as you can afford. Those lawsuits are expensive. (They're all-volunteer, and their President is a lawyer, but there are fees and expert witnesses who don't come cheap).

https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/index.php

As a matter of fact, my renewal came in the mail today. Thank you MSI!

MJD438 said:
Yup, the only ones... not like MSRPA being a named plaintiff on a case that is at SCOTUS awaiting review...

I will be sending MSRPA something as well. Thanks for all the hard work you put in on our behalf. :thumbsup:

Lalez · Feb 14, 2020

Here is the Maryland Concealed carry case being brought to the Supreme Court, interesting to note that the Attorney General's for Alabama and 20 other states are listed as parties on behalf of the petitioner. People around the United States are genuinely pissed off at Marylands gun laws.

Brian Kirk Malpasso, et al., Petitioners
v.
William M. Pallozzi, in His Official Capacity as Maryland Secretary of State Police

Party name: State of Alabama as Amici Curiae
John Parker Sweeney
Counsel of Record Bradley Arant Boult Cummings, LLP
1615 L Street NW
Suite 1350
Washington, DC 20036

jsweeney@bradley.com 202-719-8216
Party name: National Rifle Association of America, Inc.
Joseph Gary Samuel Greenlee
Counsel of Record Firearms Policy Coalition
1215 K Street, 17th Floor
Sacramento, CA 95814

josephgreenlee@gmail.com (970) 485-3303
Party name: Firearms Policy Coalition, Firearms Policy Foundation, California Gun Rights Foundation, Madison Society Foundation, and Second Amendment Foundation

Sundazes · Feb 14, 2020

squaregrouper said:
I got the same email. I will (hopefully) pick mine up in an hour or so.

Let us know how it went and how accurate it was or is.

inkd · Feb 14, 2020

squaregrouper said:
I got the same email. I will (hopefully) pick mine up in an hour or so.

Without having to dig through the thread to see if it has been answered, why are you requesting your firearms purchasing/selling information? Is it for your own records to "balance your books" or are you planning to use it at an upcoming meeting?

teratos · Feb 14, 2020

Bob A said:
Haven't heard anything substanttial about MSRPA. Feel free to spread the news, in as much detail as you can muster.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Yes, MSRPA is worthy of support. The State affiliate of NRA.

I know folks crap on NRA, but if you really do your research, NRA does step up.

MSRPA is a named plaintiff in a case relevant to MD.

MSRPA has a representative in Annapolis working closely with MSI and NRA. (MJD438).

Consider being a member.

Bertfish · Feb 14, 2020

inkd said:
Without having to dig through the thread to see if it has been answered, why are you requesting your firearms purchasing/selling information? Is it for your own records to "balance your books" or are you planning to use it at an upcoming meeting?

So we know what they know we own

Squaregrouper · Feb 14, 2020

squaregrouper said:
I got the same email. I will (hopefully) pick mine up in an hour or so.

sundazes said:
Let us know how it went and how accurate it was or is.

inkd said:
Without having to dig through the thread to see if it has been answered, why are you requesting your firearms purchasing/selling information? Is it for your own records to "balance your books" or are you planning to use it at an upcoming meeting?

I have my number and payment receipt- was able to do that in person. Actually getting the documents needs to be done by appointment, so I'm still waiting.

Inkd- I want to confirm or deny whether every regulated firearm purchased stays on my file even after it is sold. I am confident that the multiple firearms I sold out of state (via a MD FFL) are still in my name. This includes an AR stripped lower I sold on Gunbroker for >$200 during the last panic. If the "ban em all bill" passes, I have the sneaking suspicion MSP is going to try to put the burden of proof on me to prove I no longer own said regulated firearm. I want to have my ducks in a row if this actually happens.
EX- Roughly 10yrs ago, I sold an original, first year, Flattop Blackhawk .44 Magnum. It was from the first batch of commercial .44 Magnums ever made. I am positive I don't have documentation of how I disposed of it- other than knowing I transferred it via Christian Soldier in Parkville, which no longer exists. How many more legally sold firearms are still tied to me?

willtill · Feb 14, 2020

My Toy said:
HB1261 got good play on WCBM radio Sean Casey and Bruce Elliott’s morning drive show between 8 and 9 am this morning.

Man, I listen to those guys every morning. Except today. :sad20:

willtill · Feb 14, 2020

squaregrouper said:
I have my number and payment receipt- was able to do that in person. Actually getting the documents needs to be done by appointment, so I'm still waiting.

Not reading you in the clear here. Payment receipt?

This is what I received (a snippet from the entire response) from the MSP once they entertained my request for the record(s) via the MSP web portal. See the bolded below:

If you are unsatisfied with this response, there are remedies available for review pursuant to GP §4-203. You may seek judicial review of this decision in the appropriate Circuit Court in accordance with GP §4-362. You may also seek dispute resolution in accordance with GP §4-lB-04.

There is no fee associated for the records.

.

Squaregrouper · Feb 14, 2020

willtill said:
Not reading you in the clear here. Payment receipt?

This is what I received (a snippet from the entire response) from the MSP once they entertained my request for the record(s) via the MSP web portal. See the bolded below:

If you are unsatisfied with this response, there are remedies available for review pursuant to GP §4-203. You may seek judicial review of this decision in the appropriate Circuit Court in accordance with GP §4-362. You may also seek dispute resolution in accordance with GP §4-lB-04.

There is no fee associated for the records.

.

Dear Requester:

Please be advised that the Maryland State Police has located records that pertain to your request submitted February 13, 2020, under the Public Information Act (Annotated Code of Maryland, General Provisions Article §§ 4-101 through 4-601).

Note that the Maryland State Police charges a fee for copies of records at the rate of 25 cents per page, 15 dollars per audio recording and 25 dollars per video recording. There is also a fee charged for the search, collection and redaction of all applicable information at a rate equal to the hourly pay of the employee(s) working to fulfill the request (first two hours gratis). As such, the fee in this matter is as follows:

1) 24 pages X $.25/page = $06.00

TOTAL DUE $06.00

Payment must be made before the requested information can be released. You may make the check or money order payable to the Maryland State Police. Please note the PIA number on your payment. Payment should be mailed to:

Not_an_outlaw · Feb 14, 2020

squaregrouper said:
1) 24 pages X $.25/page = $06.00

TOTAL DUE $06.00

Payment must be made before the requested information can be released. You may make the check or money order payable to the Maryland State Police. Please note the PIA number on your payment. Payment should be mailed to:

That's a big safe.

willtill · Feb 14, 2020

squaregrouper said:
Dear Requester:

Please be advised that the Maryland State Police has located records that pertain to your request submitted February 13, 2020, under the Public Information Act (Annotated Code of Maryland, General Provisions Article §§ 4-101 through 4-601).

Note that the Maryland State Police charges a fee for copies of records at the rate of 25 cents per page, 15 dollars per audio recording and 25 dollars per video recording. There is also a fee charged for the search, collection and redaction of all applicable information at a rate equal to the hourly pay of the employee(s) working to fulfill the request (first two hours gratis). As such, the fee in this matter is as follows:

1) 24 pages X $.25/page = $06.00

TOTAL DUE $06.00

Payment must be made before the requested information can be released. You may make the check or money order payable to the Maryland State Police. Please note the PIA number on your payment. Payment should be mailed to:

Whoa! I NEVER got that communication from them regarding a payment.

Very interesting.

Art3 · Feb 14, 2020

ash153 said:
I don't have time to read through all 59 pages on this thread. Can someone tell me what I can do to help stop HB1261 (and the other anti 2A bills)? I got the NRA email to contact our legislators and did that, but I want to do more. I live on the Eastern Shore and have never gone to Annapolis over legislation, but this is the straw that broke the camel's back. I should have done more in 2013. Years from now I don't want to be saying that about 2020.

I read through the whole thread in 2 days when it was 48 pgs :rasp:

Here are some suggestions you might have missed that I think are pretty good :innocent0

Art3 said:
Welcome to the fight, folks, and thank you for your interest. The first and simplest thing you can do (tonight, even) is begin recruiting more folks. Remember the gospel according to G.I. Joe, "Knowing is half the battle." It is absolutely appalling how many people, even at gun shows, do not know what is going on in Annapolis...or even what the HQL is. Educate yourself at www.marylandshallissue.org and www.msrpa.org, and tell you friends, relatives, coworkers, classmates, dogwalkers, ballwashers, etc. what is going on, and that we need their help (starting with getting them to spread the word to everyone they know).

Call and write your representatives. Don't know who they are?
https://maryland.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=177afa87a67746a4ac5496b2d0897fb7
Pester the ones on the pertinent committees even if they aren't your reps. Get your friends and their friends to do the same.

Find a way to get to Annapolis to testify in person. We don't have a hearing date for this bill, but come to one of the others (like on 2/19 or 2/20) as a "warm up." Touch base with some of the "regulars" like Biggfoot44, knovotny, MJD438, AdolfOliverBush, esqappellate, ShafTed, Not an Outlaw, Stoveman, Squaregrouper, Tball, (I'm sure I've left out a few) etc. or some of the new stars like Kicken Wing, Ziptiespec, or NewTwo to learn what to expect. I'm sure any of them would be happy to show you the ropes, once you park at the Stadium and ride the shuttle bus (bring $5 cash to park and $4 for the bus) to lawyer's mall, and get there before 11am to sign in.

Written testimony needs to be in PDF format on a usb drive. MSI's testimony is available on their site, and can give you some hints. You don't have to be a great public speaker. Personal stories about how bills will (or would have) affect(ed) you and your family are great! But, standing up, saying your name, and "I oppose/support this bill, thank you" is a lot more than nothing.

I've been amazed at how open to listening some of the reps on the other side have been when I've bumped into them in the halls. A few of them are absolutely lost causes, but a couple have actually listened. It is a very different experience being face to face with them, not in front of a microphone with a time limit. Just being there seems like another half of the battle. Talk to the friendlies too. Ask them what you can do to help with your testimony. They can key you in to some of the behind the scenes politics, and offer valuable insight like, "As soon as you mention crime in Baltimore City, all the Democrats roll their eyes and tune you out."

To win the long game, in addition to the continual education and motivation of existing gun owners, you can get more people involved in the shooting sports. That is a step to the only real way to truly affect change: altering the makeup of the MD General Assembly. Obviously, it won't happen this session. We need to break the Democrat supermajority. Some folks say Republicans are bad, too. Republicans aren't the ones trying to do this to us...but if you can help miracle some Libertarians in there, fine...great! Whatever...just fewer Democrats.

There are some who will say that we are wasting our time in Annapolis. That will be less true if the supermajority is broken. For now, let me offer this suggestion: As bad as it seems, just imagine what would happen if we didn't have any voice down there...if no one testified at all, except the endless line of demanding mommies. If that was the only presence seen or heard, how could any legislators not pass anything and everything bloomburg wanted?

squaregrouper said:
Getting every gun owner you know aware of what is going on is a very important step. Have them call or email their representative. It is 5 minutes out of their lives and if they also tell all of their friends to do the same, we can quickly make this a re-election concern for our electing officials. THAT is what matters to them.

ETA- Always be polite and professional. You want to convince the legislator you are a normal citizen and have a bunch of friends who think the same way.

Adolph Oliver Bush said:
You can go here: https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/legislation-tracker/bill-tracker

And you can show up in Annapolis and testify. It is really great fun. Call and email your legislators. And call and email the committee members too -- as committee members, they represent all Marylanders.

See also www.patriotpicket.org. They are also on Facebook. No keyboard commandos in that group.

Anyone that needs help contacting legislators or testifying (written or oral) please PM me. Am happy to help.

Adolph Oliver Bush said:
Whatever you do, don't take the advice of the naysayers who posted after you. Lots of <redacted> here. You can choose to fight tyranny, or you can bend over for it. If you move, it will just follow you. Remember how pro-2A Virginia used to be?

See my sig line for how I feel about the matter.

Squaregrouper · Feb 14, 2020

Not_an_outlaw said:
That's a big safe.

This is my concern. I'm really starting to lean towards every regulated purchase stays with you indefinitely, regardless of disposition. I can comfortably say I DO NOT own 24 regulated firearms; this doesn't require opening the safe and counting. I'm sure I don't own 24 regulated firearms.

Mark75H · Feb 14, 2020

Correct, its a record of your purchases, not what you own. You can't "unpurchase" something

buellsfurn · Feb 14, 2020

squaregrouper said:
This is my concern. I'm really starting to lean towards every regulated purchase stays with you indefinitely, regardless of disposition. I can comfortably say I DO NOT own 24 regulated firearms; this doesn't require opening the safe and counting. I'm sure I don't own 24 regulated firearms.

so for my education whats your next step

Squaregrouper · Feb 14, 2020

Mark75H said:
Correct, its a record of your purchases, not what you own. You can't "unpurchase" something

If someone asked me a week ago "How many regulated firearms have you purchased in your 20yrs as a Maryland resident" I would have guesstimated 30. It appears the actual number is 24.
I'm not OK with this, as my actual count is about half of what MSP thinks I have.

HB1261 - Weapon Crimes - Assault Long Guns and Copycat Weapons

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