In just over a month 118 Red Flag PO’s

Schipperke said:

Sure.. that's the only way a cop would kill you..

Would Philando Castile agree? We'll never know. Daniel Shaver did his best, but his director decided it just wasn't an academy scripted performance. Poor Walter Scott just couldn't run away fast enough to out run the bullets in his back. Yep, so any level.

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And since you know all there is to know about all Police actions in this country... You WOULD be the guy with the expertise on what constitutes "any level of non compliance". Funny thing is... in 2 1/2 decades of LE... I NEVER killed anyone for failing to comply with any lawful order that I gave them. I guess by your standards... I must have been just a slacker.

Thanks for clearing that up.

RoadDawg said:

And since you know all there is to know about all Police actions in this country... You WOULD be the guy with the expertise on what constitutes "any level of non compliance". Funny thing is... in 2 1/2 decades of LE... I NEVER killed anyone for failing to comply with any lawful order that I gave them. I guess by your standards... I must have been just a slacker.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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What your opinion on Jackie Folio? Was she railroaded off the force or was she dirty?

I wonder if these types of conversations are exactly what the libs are wanting? I hate seeing the lack of respect these days to police, everything they do is subject to be wrong. I've seen cell phone video taken out of context make a cop look like a demon. Then there is true film of the few dirty cops that make it all appear credible in the eyes of the media. No one wants to be put in the position of defending our rights against a guy/gal just trying to do his/her job but it is the world the politicians have created for us to live in. How many of us would help a LEO if they witnessed him/her being overtaken by a thug. I'd like to think most of us would help. We should turn these conversations into ways to educate each other and stand together because divided we fall.

Batt816 said:

I wonder if these types of conversations are exactly what the libs are wanting? I hate seeing the lack of respect these days to police, everything they do is subject to be wrong. I've seen cell phone video taken out of context make a cop look like a demon. Then there is true film of the few dirty cops that make it all appear credible in the eyes of the media. No one wants to be put in the position of defending our rights against a guy/gal just trying to do his/her job but it is the world the politicians have created for us to live in. How many of us would help a LEO if they witnessed him/her being overtaken by a thug. I'd like to think most of us would help. We should turn these conversations into ways to educate each other and stand together because divided we fall.

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I think an overwhelming majority would help.

What if they refused to "just do their job" when just doing their job involves trampling on our rights?

Again, why is it on us the literal victim of these laws to make life easier on those who victimize us? Why can we not point out both the politicians making the laws and the LEOs enforcing them for their roles in attacking our rights?
Why is it you must always support the police no matter what? Why is it anti-cop to be critical of them?

Schipperke said:

Sure.. that's the only way a cop would kill you..

Would Philando Castile agree? We'll never know. Daniel Shaver did his best, but his director decided it just wasn't an academy scripted performance. Poor Walter Scott just couldn't run away fast enough to out run the bullets in his back. Yep, so any level.

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A buddy of mine at my workplace was pretty good friends with Daniel Shaver! Daniel Shaver was good people! He was murdered in cold blood! Plain and simple!

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IDFInfantry said:

A buddy of mine at my workplace was pretty good friends with Daniel Shaver! Daniel Shaver was good people! He was murdered in cold blood! Plain and simple!

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Well that was the most effed up thing I've seen tonight.

There are good and there are bad people in all walks of life. The times that the bad ones make it onto a police force is unfortunate. The times that good cops go bad, is very sad. Both instances happen all of the time. If you don't think so, then you're living in a fantasy.

j_h_smith said:

There are good and there are bad people in all walks of life. The times that the bad ones make it onto a police force is unfortunate. The times that good cops go bad, is very sad. Both instances happen all of the time. If you don't think so, then you're living in a fantasy.

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Why do good cops cover for bad ones when there's clearly evidence of wrongdoing?

IDFInfantry said:

Why do good cops cover for bad ones when there's clearly evidence of wrongdoing?

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I personally believe it's because they have each other's back all the time, on the clock, off the clock and even when their friends may have done something wrong. I've known good cops and bad cops. My BIL was a bad cop. He didn't start out that way but before he left the force, he was way different than when he started.

That's why I asked about Jackie Folio. I knew her in school and she was a great cop. She was caught up in a sting, one that went sideways from the very beginning. I personally don't believe she did anything wrong, but the city was not going to take the wrap on a false arrest, so they tried to pin it on her. A very sad situation.

Then I had a friend who committed suicide as a cop. He got mixed up with a loose woman, lost his wife, daughters and the rest of the family. But instead of his friends on the force showing him his errors, they covered for him, lied for him, did everything that he wanted them to do. One day, he got a call from his daughter and she didn't want anything to do with him. He hung up from the call, went to his bed and shot himself. I truly believe if his friends on the force, were in fact REAL friends, he would be alive today and possibly back with his wife, kids and family.

I'm sure there's 1000000 more stories just like these.

Christ Almighty

IDFInfantry said:

A buddy of mine at my workplace was pretty good friends with Daniel Shaver! Daniel Shaver was good people! He was murdered in cold blood! Plain and simple!

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probably one of the most upsetting things I have seen in a while. Da fuk?! Poor guy.

j_h_smith said:

What your opinion on Jackie Folio? Was she railroaded off the force or was she dirty?

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I’ll not post my opinion on the matter here. I don’t believe her name should be posted in this light on a public forum. It is not fair to her.

RoadDawg said:

And since you know all there is to know about all Police actions in this country... You WOULD be the guy with the expertise on what constitutes "any level of non compliance". Funny thing is... in 2 1/2 decades of LE... I NEVER killed anyone for failing to comply with any lawful order that I gave them. I guess by your standards... I must have been just a slacker.

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Here's the thing though:

You were a good cop. Not all cops are like you were.

I think it's fairly obvious that there are plenty of cops out there who WILL kill someone for any level of noncompliance. The Daniel Shaver video is a perfect example of that, and there are dozens upon dozens upon dozens more. They told him they were looking for an excuse to shoot him, and they shot him while he was making every attempt to comply with their orders.

And frankly until this:

IDFInfantry said:

Why do good cops cover for bad ones when there's clearly evidence of wrongdoing?

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is addressed, the PR problem that cops have in this country right now is never going to go away. Ever. The militarization of the police in this country, along with the "it's us vs them" mindset that a lot of officers have these days, both contribute to a culture where the police feel like they are owed absolute obeisance from everyone and that the slightest hint of someone questioning anything needs to be immediately met with overwhelming force.

If the police want more respect from the rest of the country, they need to start earning it. The next time some cop shoots an innocent kid, he doesn't get desk duty and pay while suspended, he needs to go to f&$*(ng prison, like anyone else would. No thin blue line closing ranks ********.

Stoveman said:

Well that was the most effed up thing I've seen tonight.

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babalou said:

probably one of the most upsetting things I have seen in a while. Da fuk?! Poor guy.

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You should read the cops dust cover... If that had been any civilian doing that it would be Life to Death.

It seems the differences here have arguments relating to times before this 1302 has negated due process for all. The power to negate has been handed down to one group and the other group ... well just took that hydraulically assisted kick to the nuts.

RoadDawg said:

I’ll not post my opinion on the matter here. I don’t believe her name should be posted in this light on a public forum. It is not fair to her.

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When I believe she was railroaded I think it's relevant. She was targeted by her superiors for their mistakes. They knowingly arrested an innocent man, took him to jail, left him there for days, read him his Miranda Rights multiple times, interrogated him multiple times while KNOWING he was innocent and not involved at all with the drugs and money they used for the sting operation. Then tried to blame Jackie for all of it. While she only acted on the call as it was reported to her.

This is all a matter of PUBLIC record, so I don't think I'm outing her. If anything I'm showing how the BCP is a dirty organization from top to bottom. I'm not saying the officers are dirty (not all of them) but the brass and government appointed portion is about as dirty as they come.

This isn't my first rodeo with the BCP, I've had friends and family work in the city and I can tell you some whoppers. A childhood friend, I'll call Bob was fired and prosecuted for the actions of his supervisor. That supervisor used his position to shift the blame of a serious situation onto Bob, when Bob wasn't the first car on the scene. This one, I won't go into detail because of its serious nature.

Hawkeye said:

Here's the thing though:

You were a good cop. Not all cops are like you were.

I think it's fairly obvious that there are plenty of cops out there who WILL kill someone for any level of noncompliance. The Daniel Shaver video is a perfect example of that, and there are dozens upon dozens upon dozens more. They told him they were looking for an excuse to shoot him, and they shot him while he was making every attempt to comply with their orders.

And frankly until this:



is addressed, the PR problem that cops have in this country right now is never going to go away. Ever. The militarization of the police in this country, along with the "it's us vs them" mindset that a lot of officers have these days, both contribute to a culture where the police feel like they are owed absolute obeisance from everyone and that the slightest hint of someone questioning anything needs to be immediately met with overwhelming force.

If the police want more respect from the rest of the country, they need to start earning it. The next time some cop shoots an innocent kid, he doesn't get desk duty and pay while suspended, he needs to go to f&$*(ng prison, like anyone else would. No thin blue line closing ranks ********.

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j_h_smith said:

When I believe she was railroaded I think it's relevant. She was targeted by her superiors for their mistakes. They knowingly arrested an innocent man, took him to jail, left him there for days, read him his Miranda Rights multiple times, interrogated him multiple times while KNOWING he was innocent and not involved at all with the drugs and money they used for the sting operation. Then tried to blame Jackie for all of it. While she only acted on the call as it was reported to her.

This is all a matter of PUBLIC record, so I don't think I'm outing her. If anything I'm showing how the BCP is a dirty organization from top to bottom. I'm not saying the officers are dirty (not all of them) but the brass and government appointed portion is about as dirty as they come.

This isn't my first rodeo with the BCP, I've had friends and family work in the city and I can tell you some whoppers. A childhood friend, I'll call Bob was fired and prosecuted for the actions of his supervisor. That supervisor used his position to shift the blame of a serious situation onto Bob, when Bob wasn't the first car on the scene. This one, I won't go into detail because of its serious nature.

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I’m frankly sick and tired of the ********.

Grabbing a few bad apples from a truck load of apples... and using their story to impugn an entire crop is so blatantly wrong that it really deserves no answer at all.

It is a consistent tactic of the Anti-2A crowd... used against millions of decent honest law abiding gun owners... folks who would do the right thing every time. The left paints ALL gun owners with the same sprayer that folks hear paint ALL LEOs.

They hate and fear the gun owners... just like folks here hate and fear LEOs. So they pull out stories about this one or that one who did the wrong thing. And they use those stories and spray on a load of hyperbole to paint the entire group with all inclusive accusations of wrongdoing.

It’s ********. We know it’s ********. But we keep on seeing it used as paint.

You’re damn right I was a “good cop”... I never covered for a bad one. And there were far more good ones than the few who weren’t. But don’t let that stop you. Keep spraying them ALL with the same brown paint.

Have you ever heard the expression one bad apple spoils the bunch? You know it wouldn't be such a problem if it was just a few bad apples that could be weeded out! It's an even bigger problem when these bad apples aren't held accountable by their peers or departments. The unfortunate thing is that I'm sure we could all cite case after case after case of many in Law Enforcement abusing their position and power. Sadly I believe it is just human nature. Absolute power corrupts absolutely! I'm all for supporting law enforcement and there are certainly excellent officers but in reality I just want to be left the F@&K alone! Our elected leaders are using law enforcement as a political tool under the guise of public safety and it's not acceptable! They are clearly abusing their positions and power. At some point I believe you are either going to have to side with your fellow average citizens or with those in power. Clear lines are already being drawn out. It's evident! Law enforcement are the enforcers for corrupt politicians that are really out of control! With the recent laws that were passed and the new laws that are about to be introduced and likely will pass it appears that there is no end in sight to the madness! Again I guess I'll ask what is your line in the sand? When the law passes banning possession on standard capacity mags will you go door to door and search for and confiscate people's property if commanded to do so? I'm sure there will be people who will find any excuse to accuse someone of having them and before you know it Law enforcement will receive anonymous tips signed off by a judge that someone was in possession of a "High Capacity Magazine". Just like they are doing with this Red Flag law which apparently gives them the right to illegally enter someones home and search for / confiscate property. Better safe than sorry right? I believe that soon the thought police might have to enter homes to confiscate kitchen knives when this crap doesn't work! Heck we could be like the UK!!!! When they receive tips of someone having a sharp object they forcefully enter and search homes!

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RoadDawg said:

I’m frankly sick and tired of the ********.

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Sure, and I understand why you would be, but that doesn't make the issue go away, either.

Grabbing a few bad apples from a truck load of apples... and using their story to impugn an entire crop is so blatantly wrong that it really deserves no answer at all.

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Just to make very clear what I was saying earlier: I do not think that all cops, or even the majority of cops, or even one in a hundred cops are bad apples. What I DO think is that there is WAY too much closing of ranks blue brotherhood defend-our-own-at-any-cost stuff that goes on whenever there is a bad cop, and that's what makes all cops look bad in the eyes of the public.

What will put a stop to that is if the police community would stop the whole brotherhood at any cost attitude and cast out the ones who give all of you a bad name. That does happen sometimes, but I don't think it happens even nearly enough.

just like folks here hate and fear LEOs.

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Again, I don't hate or fear LEOs. I just refuse to buy in to the whole "all men are equal and then some become cops" attitude that I feel is all to prevalent these days.

It’s ********. We know it’s ********. But we keep on seeing it used as paint.

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And it'll keep getting used as paint until the LEO community starts taking action on a nationwide scale to fix the issues that lead to the people picking up the paintbrushes in the first place.

You’re damn right I was a “good cop”... I never covered for a bad one.

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Exactly, but you need to remember that not all cops are like you were. Also, if I may ask (and you don't have to answer if you don't want to or don't feel comfortable doing so in public) how long have you been retired?

RoadDawg said:

I’m frankly sick and tired of the ********.

Grabbing a few bad apples from a truck load of apples... and using their story to impugn an entire crop is so blatantly wrong that it really deserves no answer at all.

It is a consistent tactic of the Anti-2A crowd... used against millions of decent honest law abiding gun owners... folks who would do the right thing every time. The left paints ALL gun owners with the same sprayer that folks hear paint ALL LEOs.

They hate and fear the gun owners... just like folks here hate and fear LEOs. So they pull out stories about this one or that one who did the wrong thing. And they use those stories and spray on a load of hyperbole to paint the entire group with all inclusive accusations of wrongdoing.

It’s ********. We know it’s ********. But we keep on seeing it used as paint.

You’re damn right I was a “good cop”... I never covered for a bad one. And there were far more good ones than the few who weren’t. But don’t let that stop you. Keep spraying them ALL with the same brown paint.

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Please, show me where ANYONE has ever said that ALL cops were bad? That never happened, except in your mind. Get off of it and admit there are bad cops. Just like there are bad teachers, bad plumbers, lets just say bad people.

The only one trying to paint a picture is you. You want this kumbaya story told and believed by all. You seem to want to question the facts as I know them to be from the situations I've discussed. Who are you to tell me that Jackie didn't get railroaded by a corrupt BCP department, or that my friend's suicide wasn't facilitated by his fellow officers? What about Bob and Mike and my BIL, are they all figments of my imagination? Must be, because according to you, none of this could have happened and I'm just trying to paint all cops as bad by talking about situations that I know are fact and did occur.

You're living a delusional world my friend. Not all cops are bad. But there are bad cops. Get over it.

Hawkeye said:

Sure, and I understand why you would be, but that doesn't make the issue go away, either.



Just to make very clear what I was saying earlier: I do not think that all cops, or even the majority of cops, or even one in a hundred cops are bad apples. What I DO think is that there is WAY too much closing of ranks blue brotherhood defend-our-own-at-any-cost stuff that goes on whenever there is a bad cop, and that's what makes all cops look bad in the eyes of the public.

What will put a stop to that is if the police community would stop the whole brotherhood at any cost attitude and cast out the ones who give all of you a bad name. That does happen sometimes, but I don't think it happens even nearly enough.



Again, I don't hate or fear LEOs. I just refuse to buy in to the whole "all men are equal and then some become cops" attitude that I feel is all to prevalent these days.



And it'll keep getting used as paint until the LEO community starts taking action on a nationwide scale to fix the issues that lead to the people picking up the paintbrushes in the first place.



Exactly, but you need to remember that not all cops are like you were. Also, if I may ask (and you don't have to answer if you don't want to or don't feel comfortable doing so in public) how long have you been retired?

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In claiming that the good cops are covering for the bad ones... you ARE painting all cops as bad. Good people don’t cover for bad people and good LEOs don’t cover for bad ones. The industry polices itself much more diligently than they are ever given credit for. But within the industry... expect folks to close ranks when any of them are accused. Or do you believe that LEOs are not entitled to be “innocent until proven guilty”? But once guilt is established... ranks will close the guilty OUT. Trust that... I’ve seen it several times.

And the idea of anyone claiming that they support LE... and then seeing them post a comment which impugns all LEOs... is a bit confusing. I support the decent honest hardworking people who seem to go unnoticed because their stories are not sensational fodder for the MSM. I do NOT support criminals who have found their way into the ranks of good people. I did my part to find them where and whenever possible... and make sure that their exit from the ranks was prepared.

Yes I am retired... but I am NOT “out”. One does not simply walk away from several decades of work and friendships.