Help settle a bet -

byf43 · Aug 16, 2017

Please help me settle a bet.

My youngest son was offered an AR-15 for a STOOPID low price.
This AR is currently in Virginia. (The seller is a co-worker and friend of my son's.)

He THINKS it is NOT a HBAR.

I told him that for him to buy it, the seller either has to dis-assemble the upper from the lower, and only sell him the lower (through an FFL) OR convert to HBAR (replace barrel with stamped HBAR).

I then told him that the smartest thing to do, is pay for the rifle, then bring JUST the upper home (since it's NOT 'the firearm') and we can replace the "lightweight" barrel with an HBAR barrel assembly, then take the upper receiver back to the seller, put the upper back on the lower.
Then have the seller bring the now compliant AR to the FFL of my son's choice, and do a "cash and carry" sale (through FFL).

He is arguing, saying that he will get the seller to bring just the lower to the FFL, do the transfer, then put a complete upper on the rifle.

I asked him IF he realizes that he'd have to wait 7+ days for the paperwork, when, IF he does this like I've suggested, there is NO waiting period.

Cash & Carry.

Please..............

Your thoughts.

Help settle a bet. The amount of the bet is a cold beer.
Now, this is all moot, IF the AR is already an HBAR.

Thanks.

danb · Aug 16, 2017

IIRC the AR LOWER is 77r because it can be made into a pistol hence the wait etc. The HBAR is cash and carry because its sold as a non-child-killing angelic rifle.

Either scenario is excessively complicated to me, because I see plenty of stupid cheap AR15 HBARs sold in Maryland, no drive to VA needed and no upper replacement needed. By the time you get a new upper in either scenario, and drive to VA, seems to me the stupid cheap price isn't cheap any more.

Also, my observation from the range recently is that stupid cheap AR15s are worth every penny you paid. Which is to say, you get what you pay for.

DaemonAssassin · Aug 16, 2017

You win the bet.

DaemonAssassin · Aug 16, 2017

danb said:
IIRC the AR LOWER is 77r because it can be made into a pistol hence the wait etc. The HBAR is cash and carry because its sold as a non-child-killing angelic rifle.

Either scenario is excessively complicated to me, because I see plenty of stupid cheap AR15 HBARs sold in Maryland, no drive to VA needed and no upper replacement needed. By the time you get a new upper in either scenario, and drive to VA, seems to me the stupid cheap price isn't cheap any more.

Also, my observation from the range recently is that stupid cheap AR15s are worth every penny you paid. Which is to say, you get what you pay for.

If you are referring to the the $200-350 uppers that are floated and everything, then yes I agree with you. I'm not saying they are all bad, but I would be incredibly hesitant to use one of those bargain basement priced uppers.

windyhill · Aug 16, 2017

Once assembled into a rifle, always a rifle, I believe.

outrider58 · Aug 16, 2017

windyhill said:
Once assembled into a rifle, always a rifle, I believe.

Yes. If it was never a pistol FIRST. it can't be legally built into one since it is now a rifle.

OP, I take it your son has no pre-ban ARs? If he does, he can keep the upper as is and transfer the lower. He just will not be able to assemble the to halves as is in the state of Merryland.

byf43 · Aug 16, 2017

outrider58 said:
Yes. If it was never a pistol FIRST. it can't be legally built into one since it is now a rifle.

OP, I take it your son has no pre-ban ARs? If he does, he can keep the upper as is and transfer the lower. He just will not be able to assemble the to halves as is in the state of Merryland.

Correct. He has no pre-ban AR. I have a couple of them, though.

I personally haven't seen the offered AR.
Supposedly, the seller has two ARs for sale. One definitely is an M4 configuration barrel.

I have located an HBAR barrel 'kit' with everything needed except the upper receiver.

I just can't get him to realize/understand that getting this rifle "cash/carry" is a LOT easier than buying 'just the lower'.

outrider58 · Aug 16, 2017

byf43 said:
Correct. He has no pre-ban AR. I have a couple of them, though.

I personally haven't seen the offered AR.
Supposedly, the seller has two ARs for sale. One definitely is an M4 configuration barrel.

I have located an HBAR barrel 'kit' with everything needed except the upper receiver.

I just can't get him to realize/understand that getting this rifle "cash/carry" is a LOT easier than buying 'just the lower'.

Yup

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

danb · Aug 16, 2017

Some people just have to learn and experience life for themselves. They very strongly feel that they need to go to the school of hard knocks. I have a long list of cheap POS I wish I never bought.

The upside, its only money, not a lot of money, and they can earn it back.

hi3cho · Aug 18, 2017

byf43 said:
Correct. He has no pre-ban AR. I have a couple of them, though.

I personally haven't seen the offered AR.
Supposedly, the seller has two ARs for sale. One definitely is an M4 configuration barrel.

I have located an HBAR barrel 'kit' with everything needed except the upper receiver.

I just can't get him to realize/understand that getting this rifle "cash/carry" is a LOT easier than buying 'just the lower'.

If you have a couple pre ban lowers. You could help him out but buying a budget HBAR upper from PSA or similar and putting the upper on one of your pre-bans. Or you could split the cost and just keep the upper and let him find an HBAR upper. Seems more cost effective than switching out barrels with the current prices of uppers from PSA and other reputable dealers.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 18, 2017

OP is correct. But I'm kind of vague on the subject of the bet ?

byf43 · Aug 18, 2017

Biggfoot44 said:
OP is correct. But I'm kind of vague on the subject of the bet ?

He seems to think that IF the seller brings the lower to the local FFL, and he buys it, then he can put the original upper on the lower, at any time.

I tell him, "No. You can't do that. Only HBAR ARs can be bought/sold/etc., IF it's .223/5.56 caliber. And, you can't assemble 'banned' parts after purchase."

I've tried and tried to tell him that it would be illegal to assemble, and that the easiest way to buy the AR, is to put an HBAR barrel on the original receiver, and take possession of the rifle, once the paperwork has been done.

byf43 · Aug 18, 2017

hi3cho said:
If you have a couple pre ban lowers. You could help him out but buying a budget HBAR upper from PSA or similar and putting the upper on one of your pre-bans. Or you could split the cost and just keep the upper and let him find an HBAR upper. Seems more cost effective than switching out barrels with the current prices of uppers from PSA and other reputable dealers.

Any 'buying' of uppers and/or barrels is his "biness".

I've gotten 'bitten' a time or three, by trying to help "the boy" out.
Nope. He's on his own for this one.

Now, I'll remove/re-install a 'legal' barrel for him, but, he's buying........ whatever.

Blacksmith101 · Aug 20, 2017

byf43 said:
He seems to think that IF the seller brings the lower to the local FFL, and he buys it, then he can put the original upper on the lower, at any time.

I tell him, "No. You can't do that. Only HBAR ARs can be bought/sold/etc., IF it's .223/5.56 caliber. And, you can't assemble 'banned' parts after purchase."

I've tried and tried to tell him that it would be illegal to assemble, and that the easiest way to buy the AR, is to put an HBAR barrel on the original receiver, and take possession of the rifle, once the paperwork has been done.

You might make an impression if you tell him if he does what he wants to do and gets caught he could become a prohibited person and loose all access to firearms for the rest of his life. :sad20:

Biggfoot44 · Aug 20, 2017

The way I read it , the son would have to do an unnecessary 7day wait , but not cross any lines into prohibiting territory.

Art3 · Aug 20, 2017

I'm guessing he's not a member here, or he'd be asking himself? Maybe you could get him to join and ask the question as part of his introduction. Not only would it open the doors to a lot of learning, he might be more receptive to this community explaining the crime he's trying to commit instead of just hearing it from Dad :rolleyes:

Art3 · Aug 20, 2017

byf43 said:
He seems to think that IF the seller brings the lower to the local FFL, and he buys it, then he can put the original upper on the lower, at any time.

I tell him, "No. You can't do that. Only HBAR ARs can be bought/sold/etc., IF it's .223/5.56 caliber. And, you can't assemble 'banned' parts after purchase."

I've tried and tried to tell him that it would be illegal to assemble, and that the easiest way to buy the AR, is to put an HBAR barrel on the original receiver, and take possession of the rifle, once the paperwork has been done.

Biggfoot44 said:
The way I read it , the son would have to do an unnecessary 7day wait , but not cross any lines into prohibiting territory.

Except for this part

byf43 · Aug 20, 2017

Blacksmith101 said:
You might make an impression if you tell him if he does what he wants to do and gets caught he could become a prohibited person and loose all access to firearms for the rest of his life.

I've already TRIED to tell him that assembling any 'banned' parts, after the date of the 'ban' (10/1/2013 IF memory serves me) could/would get him into a world of $#!+.
I've also told him that if he put (or I help him put) an HBAR on the existing upper, BEFORE he brought it into the state (to an FFL) or, changed calibers (300 blackout, for example) he would be waaaaaaaaaay smarter.

Biggfoot44 said:
The way I read it , the son would have to do an unnecessary 7day wait , but not cross any lines into prohibiting territory.

I've TRIED to tell him that IF he only takes possession of the lower, that a 7 day wait is one way to get the rifle.

Art3 said:
I'm guessing he's not a member here, or he'd be asking himself? Maybe you could get him to join and ask the question as part of his introduction. Not only would it open the doors to a lot of learning, he might be more receptive to this community explaining the crime he's trying to commit instead of just hearing it from Dad

He is a member, here.
It's been so long ago, since he's logged on. Remmy1996 or Remmy96 is his screen-name. (Can't remember, actually.)

:shrug:

byf43 · Aug 25, 2017

Well, it seems that my youngest boy has lost interest in getting another AR.

A few days ago, we met another MDS member, up in Hanover, and my son took possession of a .243.

We later walked around in BPro, and he saw a bolt rifle that he just HAD TO HAVE!!!!!!

Now, he's been 'bitten' by the .300 WinMag.
Remington 700 "Long Range". Bell and Carlson stock. 26" heavy barrel.

The rifle does feel good when shouldered, and it 'sits' in your hands and doesn't move a bit. (Fits ME quite well!)

Must be nice. Young. Making some money. Having enough disposable income to buy a couple of rifles on the same day........ same trip.

silasvirus82 · Aug 25, 2017

The whole process in MD is so stupid, but better than CA I suppose. Can't wait to move back South!

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