Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 (vs Leupold VX2?)

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  • Ethan83

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 8, 2009
    3,111
    Baltimoreish
    My Kidd 10/22 has been wearing a Leupold VX2 (6-18x 40mm fine duplex) and I've been thinking about moving to a Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 5-25x FFP with the EBR-2C MOA reticle. I'm already getting <=MOA groups out to 100 yards pretty easily, so I want to start pushing it out to 200yd and beyond. The primary motivation for the Vortex is the reticle w MOA subtensions, but the extra zoom doesn't hurt either for tiny targets at that range.

    I've heard mixed reviews of Vortex as a brand - it seems there are the fanboys that think it's just the bees knees; there are the snobs that seem to be turned off to Vortex entirely by the fanboys; and the 'general consensus' as best I can tell is that they're a fairly good value and competitive with other scopes in their equivalent price ranges.

    I have very little experience with optics; I know the VX2 is a fairly modest scope, but it sure looks damn bright and sharp to me (I always use it cranked up to 18x) - makes me wonder how much better nicer scopes could possibly look? I don't doubt for a second that they do, I guess it's just something I can't really wrap my head around without actually looking through a high-end scope. Perhaps that's because I'm only looking through my VX2 out to 100 yards? Also, I've only ever really used it during the day; my understanding is that low-light conditions is what separates the men from the boys with optics. I've certainly used the VX2 when it was very overcast, and approaching dusk, and the image didn't seem to suffer at all to me, but I can't say I've ever really used it any conditions I would call particularly dark. Is the low-light performance of a scope compounded by the range one is using it at - i.e. I would be noticing more of a difference in the VX2's quality (or lack thereof) if I was looking at 600 yards instead of just 100?

    I'm very much a "buy once cry once" kind of person, but considering it's going on a .22, I'm never going to be shooting beyond maybe 250-300 yards at the ABSOLUTE max, and realistically only very rarely beyond 200. I've read in many places that the Razor HD line is unquestionably superior to the Viper PST line, but it's a jump from $1.1k to $2.5k for the 5-25x FFP models. Is it possible that the extra quality of glass is completely wasted inside 200 yards?

    Is the increased low-light performance only of marginal utility for about 30 min at sunrise and sunset, before it's too dark to use a scope entirely? Or does a high enough quality scope mean the difference between usable by moonlight and not? I have well over $2k into the rifle already (probably closer to 3k), so I don't mind spending the money if it's worth it, but it's not clear to me that there's anything to be gained by jumping to the Razor HD for this application.

    The Viper PST line of scopes seem to be around double the price for their equivalent in the VX2 line, so is it safe to assume that the optics are just as good or better than the VX2s? Or is all that extra cost just going into the bells and whistles like the reticles and illumination?

    I appreciate any thoughts or insight anybody can share. Thanks!! :thumbsup:
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I have a Vortex Viper PST gen2 mounted on a Savage model 10 .308 (forget the designator but it's an 18" heaviy-ish barrel that's factory threaded. Dedicated suppressor host . . . Whenever my stamp comes back) in an xlr chassis. I like it a lot, but this is my very first foray into mid tier glass. You are welcome to look at mine if we ever happen to be at the same range at the same time.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    I think I can offer a fair comparison. Ive got a VX6 3-18 on a Savage Axis II and a Vortex PST 6-24x50 on another Savage BA/Stealth.

    The Leupold scope is very bright I would say slightly brighter than the Vortex however it’s not an apples to apples comparison because the maximum magnification is only 18x vs 24x. Also my Vortex is a Gen 1 so I think that a gen 2 should be superior to a VX6 which should be a huge increase in resolution over your VX2.

    As for the general capabilities of the Vortex PST, I can attest that you will be able to use it confidently out to at least 1200yds. I have shot that far in various lighting conditions without any serious problems. If anything I think the limitations and fuzziness I have experienced at 1200yds has more to do with my own 49yr old eyes and having to wear progressive lenses.

    I’m not a Vortex fan boy but I am very happy with my Gen 1 PST
     

    steves1911

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 2, 2011
    3,026
    On a hill in Wv
    The vx2 is more along the lines of a diamondback. The pst gen 2 has much nicer glass and they finally fixed that crappy zero stop from the gen 1.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    For me, this answer is easy. I think your answer becomes moot when viewed within the context of the cartridge. In a nutshell, you're out of gas with 22lr long before you're out of Leupold VX-2 clarity.

    With a 50 yard zero, you're looking at approximately 5.5 inches of drop at 100 yards. At 200 yards, you're now over 3.5 feet. We haven't even considered wind. Beyond that, we're lobbing mortars.

    Not at all knocking the 22lr extended range game. But I just don't see what an expensive optics upgrade will allow you to accomplish that the wholly sufficient 200 yard clarity of a VX-2 won't.
     

    Lloyd

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 20, 2012
    1,106
    FEMA Camp
    For me, this answer is easy. I think your answer becomes moot when viewed within the context of the cartridge. In a nutshell, you're out of gas with 22lr long before you're out of Leupold VX-2 clarity.

    With a 50 yard zero, you're looking at approximately 5.5 inches of drop at 100 yards. At 200 yards, you're now over 3.5 feet. We haven't even considered wind. Beyond that, we're lobbing mortars.

    Not at all knocking the 22lr extended range game. But I just don't see what an expensive optics upgrade will allow you to accomplish that the wholly sufficient 200 yard clarity of a VX-2 won't.

    My vote for best answer
     

    GUNSnROTORS

    nude member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 7, 2013
    3,620
    hic sunt dracones
    For me, this answer is easy. I think your answer becomes moot when viewed within the context of the cartridge. In a nutshell, you're out of gas with 22lr long before you're out of Leupold VX-2 clarity.

    With a 50 yard zero, you're looking at approximately 5.5 inches of drop at 100 yards. At 200 yards, you're now over 3.5 feet. We haven't even considered wind. Beyond that, we're lobbing mortars.

    Not at all knocking the 22lr extended range game. But I just don't see what an expensive optics upgrade will allow you to accomplish that the wholly sufficient 200 yard clarity of a VX-2 won't.

    Agreed - and at 200 yards, you're firmly subsonic to boot.
     

    Ethan83

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 8, 2009
    3,111
    Baltimoreish
    For me, this answer is easy. I think your answer becomes moot when viewed within the context of the cartridge. In a nutshell, you're out of gas with 22lr long before you're out of Leupold VX-2 clarity.

    With a 50 yard zero, you're looking at approximately 5.5 inches of drop at 100 yards. At 200 yards, you're now over 3.5 feet. We haven't even considered wind. Beyond that, we're lobbing mortars.

    Not at all knocking the 22lr extended range game. But I just don't see what an expensive optics upgrade will allow you to accomplish that the wholly sufficient 200 yard clarity of a VX-2 won't.

    Agreed - and at 200 yards, you're firmly subsonic to boot.

    Understood - I'm familiar with the ballistics. And I'm shooting target ammo (usually Eley Match), so I'm already well subsonic to begin with. The primary reason for the Vortex scope would be the reticle, so I can use holdovers without adjusting the turrets, plus trying to acclimate myself to ranging using the subtensions. As I said, I don't really intend to shoot beyond 200yd - *maybe* 250-300 at the absolute most, but not likely.

    So it sounds like my theory is correct, that the improved optic quality is of no real advantage until getting out to much further distances than 200 yards?

    Even if I'm trying to hit ping pong balls at dusk at 250 yards?

    I'm hoping for an optic that will be more versatile than just aiming at fixed shoot-n-sees on a sunny day at a wide open shooting range. I have no problem inherently with the additional cost of the Razor HD 2 or Razor AMG if there's any utility in the improved optic quality, but if the additional quality is of no real-world value until getting out to 500+ yards, I don't want to piss away the extra $1400 for nothing.

    I'm leaning toward the Viper PST, but I absolutely hate living with "what-ifs" for not holding out to buy the best quality.
     

    CodeWarrior1241

    Active Member
    Sep 23, 2013
    827
    Lutherville
    The vx2 is more along the lines of a diamondback. The pst gen 2 has much nicer glass and they finally fixed that crappy zero stop from the gen 1.
    I have a PST gen 1 on a 308 of the same magnification range as that being discussed, but haven't taken it out yet. Got the scope cheap enough that I'm not super worried, but could you plz elaborate - what was the zero stop issue with it? And is it resolvable aftermarket/repair etc.?

    Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk
     

    steves1911

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 2, 2011
    3,026
    On a hill in Wv
    I have a PST gen 1 on a 308 of the same magnification range as that being discussed, but haven't taken it out yet. Got the scope cheap enough that I'm not super worried, but could you plz elaborate - what was the zero stop issue with it? And is it resolvable aftermarket/repair etc.?

    Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk

    The zero stop uses shims and doesn't actually stop on zero so you have to watch it. It also a real pita to get the shims installed once you have your zero dialed in.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,500
    God's Country
    I have a PST gen 1 on a 308 of the same magnification range as that being discussed, but haven't taken it out yet. Got the scope cheap enough that I'm not super worried, but could you plz elaborate - what was the zero stop issue with it? And is it resolvable aftermarket/repair etc.?

    Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk



    I find that In really cannot rely on a true “Zero stop”. What happens is that if do happen to get the scope to zero with tight shims eventually they expand. I’ve noticed that If I forget to return the scope to zero and leave it stored for a while, I really have to crank the knob tightly to force it back to zero. I figure this force cant be good, so I usually shoot for shims to be set at say somewhere between -0.2 and -0.5mil. This way I know to dial down as far as I can go then dial up a few clicks back to Zero.
     

    GUNSnROTORS

    nude member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 7, 2013
    3,620
    hic sunt dracones
    Even if I'm trying to hit ping pong balls at dusk at 250 yards?

    I'm hoping for an optic that will be more versatile than just aiming at fixed shoot-n-sees on a sunny day at a wide open shooting range. I have no problem inherently with the additional cost of the Razor HD 2 or Razor AMG if there's any utility in the improved optic quality, but if the additional quality is of no real-world value until getting out to 500+ yards, I don't want to piss away the extra $1400 for nothing.

    I'm leaning toward the Viper PST, but I absolutely hate living with "what-ifs" for not holding out to buy the best quality.



    Excepting terminal effects, suppose ~250 yards with Eley Match subs and a tiny round target isn't much different than ~800 yards with .308 MatchKings and a steel torso (from a ballistics perspective).

    You can't hit what you can't see. Dialed to similar powers, you'll be able to see that dusky 250-yard ping-pong ball better with the PST II. Better still, with a Razor HD Gen II. Guess it depends on how bad you want to hit that damn ball. :)
     

    Broncolou

    Active Member
    Jan 22, 2013
    689
    Parkton MD
    I just got the PSTII 3-15 in mil/mil. I just mounted and zeroed. Haven't had any time clicking other than zero time. Glass is great and the parallax goes nice and low almost as low as my swfa 10x. If it returns to zero and doesnt need to go to warranty claims it may become my favorite scope. i have it on a CZ 455
     

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    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    For my .22 trainer (CZ 455), I put a Midway BSA Tactical 4x14 scope. It works well out to 200 yards (have not shot much at 200).

    Cheap, has reticle subtensions (but MIL), and exposed target turrets.

    To me, enough scope for .22.

    But, if I could afford to replace my PST Gen 1 on my .308, I might consider putting it on the .22. :D
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    Check out the heavily discounted Weaver Grand Slam scopes (made in Japan) on sale at Natchez. I've recently gotten three in the $224-260 range (shipped after discounts) after finding that I like their glass better in low light in comparison to my Nikon Monarch and Leupold VX-2 scopes. For rimfire, they have the added advantage of side parallax adjustment. Here's one example of the 4-16x ...

    https://www.natchezss.com/weaver-re...scope-4-16x44mm-23-4-6-3-3-46-3-15-matte.html

    There are other Grand Slams in stock that are in the $200-300 range, but they're selling out.

    Natchez has several additional promotions (such as free shipping or an additional 10% off) that you can also use today ...

    https://www.natchezss.com/conditions/black-friday.html

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     

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