2-3 day pistol course recommendations?

hogarth · Oct 20, 2016

Blaster229 said:
Per shooter? Name one that isn't full auto. Most I've done in a day with pistol is about 2,500. No one can keep that pace up and still give a shit where the rounds go.

I was reaching that point after two days with Jeff Gonzales. That was 1370 rounds in 2 days.

travistheone · Oct 20, 2016

hogarth said:
I was reaching that point after two days with Jeff Gonzales. That was 1370 rounds in 2 days.

yes. not saying I have ever shot 6k or that I have ever heard of a private course that would go that high.

only feasible situation would be a small group of folks who know the drills exceptionally well just shooting for repetition. akin to spending 3 hours shooting free throws on the court.

J.T · Oct 20, 2016

I did about 900 pistol, 250 simunition and about 800 carbine in 3 days at Academi.

Great place, highly recommended

AMStrick · Oct 25, 2016

At Storm Mountain, you shoot 1,000 rounds per full range day.

jimbobborg · Oct 25, 2016

So on top of the $800 cost of the class, then $200+ for hotel, you're spending $400-$600 on ammunition? Because you can't shoot your own reloads at most of these classes?

travistheone · Oct 25, 2016

jimbobborg said:
So on top of the $800 cost of the class, then $200+ for hotel, you're spending $400-$600 on ammunition? Because you can't shoot your own reloads at most of these classes?

yes, although the numbers you present look high.

class-500
ammo- 200 (500 rd of 9mm)
hotel- 200 max

lot of classes can be all said and done 2 days for under 1k. 1 day classes are a quite a bit less expensive due to no hotel/less rounds/less hours.

Blaster229 · Oct 25, 2016

I don't see how 1,000 rounds for a 1 day pistol class is educational. I've spent many a full day shooting in "class" and maybe averaged close to 500 and that was seasoned shooters getting tired. A class of 5 pushing through, probably. But a class size of 15-20? No way.

hogarth · Oct 25, 2016

jimbobborg said:
So on top of the $800 cost of the class, then $200+ for hotel, you're spending $400-$600 on ammunition? Because you can't shoot your own reloads at most of these classes?

I've never been to a class where they said no reloads. However, the caveat is that if your gun starts to shit the bed because your reloads suck, you're missing training time and your peers might be as well.

hogarth · Oct 25, 2016

Blaster229 said:
I don't see how 1,000 rounds for a 1 day pistol class is educational. I've spent many a full day shooting in "class" and maybe averaged close to 500 and that was seasoned shooters getting tired. A class of 5 pushing through, probably. But a class size of 15-20? No way.

Agreed. The classes I look back on the most fondly (for example, Mike Pannone's Covert Carry class) tend to hover in the 700 round range over two days. It really depends on what you're working on.

sleepingdino · Oct 25, 2016

hogarth said:
Agreed. The classes I look back on the most fondly (for example, Mike Pannone's Covert Carry class) tend to hover in the 700 round range over two days. It really depends on what you're working on.

Ammo dumps by definition cannot be educational. Sending 1000 rounds per day downrange precludes the instructor from speaking, teaching, or demonstrating skills or tactics.

I burned through more than 2100 (1800 rifle, 300 pistol) rounds over 3 days with Chris Costa and I'm not sure of what I learned. It would have been more rounds, but I had to leave early to catch a plane.

Blaster229 · Oct 25, 2016

hogarth said:
Agreed. The classes I look back on the most fondly (for example, Mike Pannone's Covert Carry class) tend to hover in the 700 round range over two days. It really depends on what you're working on.

I told you what I know about Mike

hogarth · Oct 25, 2016

sleepingdino said:
Ammo dumps by definition cannot be educational. Sending 1000 rounds per day downrange precludes the instructor from speaking, teaching, or demonstrating skills or tactics.

I burned through more than 2100 (1800 rifle, 300 pistol) rounds over 3 days with Chris Costa and I'm not sure of what I learned. It would have been more rounds, but I had to leave early to catch a plane.

In the Jeff Gonzales class I referenced above, we shot 1370 over two days. We spent a ton of time on that class on grip/recoil control, and probably the best way to test the effectiveness of your grip is to shoot strings of 5 or so rounds. An okay grip might survive a controlled pair, but after five rounds your so-so grip will be compromised. Do it several times for practice and there goes a fast 20 rounds. Now do it at 3, 5, 7, 10, 15, and 25 yards to combine it with accuracy (several strings at each distance), and there goes a quick 120 rounds or so.

I'm not a fan of high round counts per se, but it's easy to see how it can happen fast.

hogarth · Oct 25, 2016

Blaster229 said:
I told you what I know about Mike

I have learned ridiculous amounts of stuff from Pannone, from the most mundane of tiny details to larger scale tactical issues. If he teaches a class on watching paint dry, I'm there.

ROBAR35 · Oct 25, 2016

+ 1 for Storm Mountain Training Center
What ever level your at Rod can get you to the next level. Been going there for years. :thumbsup:

AMStrick · Oct 26, 2016

When training at Storm Mountain they tell you what the objectives are for the training. There are timed drills, the Instructors keep records of your times so you can see what your improvements are and where you need to practice. There are also malfunction drills that you are expected to be able to work through. All timed drills and malfunction exercises focus on being able to hit your target on the first round and being able to identify a malfunction, fix it and get your weapon back in the fight.

Have attended many classes there, have never came away thinking I just through 1,000 plus rounds down range and did not learn something or not improve my times. Have always learned something or improved my skill sets while training there. People learn in different ways, if you do not like a particular training facility do not go there. Find a training facility that you do like and helps you improve your skill sets.

Storm Mountain is the only training center that I am aware of (except GOV or MIL Training Facilities) where you can learn and practice shooting while on the move at a moving target. While doing this you have an field level experienced instructor watching and giving corrective guidance when needed.

Regarding lodging, Storm Mountain has a Bunk House on the facility that you can use for a very reasonable price. If you go there, ask about the availibiity of the Bunk House. I helps on cost and the morning commute to training is a short walk. There are hotels in Keyser, WV that run less than $100 per night.

Price on 9 mm is running around $220 per thousand rounds, have seen some for $190 per thousand rounds.

Find a training center you like and go learn or practice.

J.T · Oct 26, 2016

sleepingdino said:
I burned through more than 2100 (1800 rifle, 300 pistol) rounds over 3 days with Chris Costa and I'm not sure of what I learned.

Can you elaborate a little more? What class? What didn't you like?

AMStrick said:
Storm Mountain is the only training center that I am aware of (except GOV or MIL Training Facilities) where you can learn and practice shooting while on the move at a moving target. While doing this you have an field level experienced instructor watching and giving corrective guidance when needed.

Regarding lodging, Storm Mountain has a Bunk House on the facility that you can use for a very reasonable price.

Academi is the same as what you describe as far as training, bunk houses, mess hall, etc...

AMStrick · Oct 26, 2016

Thanks for the info on Academi.

sleepingdino · Oct 26, 2016

J.T said:
Can you elaborate a little more? What class? What didn't you like?

Costa is an impressively skilled trainer and gunman. I took the CET2 class in Naples, Florida. The course was held at a very large training facility which was a former prison. The facilities for shooting were impressive.

This may be the case with some well known trainers, but Costa spent 90% of the time helping the 5 mil/LEOs, and the other 17 students were largely on their own. He did not have any assistants. I did pick up some useful pearls from some of the other students, but this is true in any class. I probably spoke to Costa 3 times the whole weekend, with the cumulative conversation time lasting about 1 minute.

We ran quite a few drills and shot from close range, with movement, and at distance. There's nothing wrong with burning though rounds so long as a worthwhile goal is being attained or skill is acquired.

The course was enjoyable and entertaining, but not cost effective given the travel, housing, ammunition, and opportunity costs. I did get a medal out of it, as well as $80 from winning one of the shooting contests. Alumni of Costaludus will understand.

I usually am able to attend one course annually, so the quality rather than quantity is paramount.

J.T · Oct 26, 2016

sleepingdino said:
J.T said:

Can you elaborate a little more? What class? What didn't you like?

Costa is an impressively skilled trainer and gunman. I took the CET2 class in Naples, Florida. The course was held at a very large training facility which was a former prison. The facilities for shooting were impressive.

This may be the case with some well known trainers, but Costa spent 90% of the time helping the 5 mil/LEOs, and the other 17 students were largely on their own. He did not have any assistants. I did pick up some useful pearls from some of the other students, but this is true in any class. I probably spoke to Costa 3 times the whole weekend, with the cumulative conversation time lasting about 1 minute.

We ran quite a few drills and shot from close range, with movement, and at distance. There's nothing wrong with burning though rounds so long as a worthwhile goal is being attained or skill is acquired.

The course was enjoyable and entertaining, but not cost effective given the travel, housing, ammunition, and opportunity costs. I did get a medal out of it, as well as $80 from winning one of the shooting contests. Alumni of Costaludus will understand.

I usually am able to attend one course annually, so the quality rather than quantity is paramount.

Click to expand...

Good to know. Thanks

It would be cool to setup a thread and try and attend some of these courses together since it seems we have a bunch of people who have tried a lot of the big name classes.

jimbobborg · Oct 27, 2016

sleepingdino said:
Ammo dumps by definition cannot be educational.

Brian Enos recommends doing an ammo dump into a berm to see how well you see the sights when you have to shoot fast.

travistheone said:
yes, although the numbers you present look high.

class-500
ammo- 200 (500 rd of 9mm)
hotel- 200 max

lot of classes can be all said and done 2 days for under 1k. 1 day classes are a quite a bit less expensive due to no hotel/less rounds/less hours.

A two day class at $200 a day for ammo equals $400.

2-3 day pistol course recommendations?

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