Identify This Mosin

lawrencewendall · Oct 15, 2010

OK. I've hurt my brain trying to decipher the history of this Mosin. Based on the markings, what can the aficionados of this site tell me about this gun. It is a Mosin Nagant M91/30, stamped 1943. I've taken pictures of every stamp I could find. Some may mean nothing while I know others have specific meaning (Izzy). If you need to know WHERE the stamp is located, you may not be the expert I'm looking for. But if similar stamps are located in different places have different meanings, let me know. My brain is hurting!!

august1410 · Oct 15, 2010

It's an Izzy, that's about all I know. Go to http://7.62x54r.net

It's a wealth of info.

psoyring · Oct 15, 2010

Usually all the parts are maker mark, thus pretty much looks straight Izhevsk. Funny the stock looks lighter than the typical red shellac, maybe Hungarian? The C number on the butt plate is unusual, have not seen that before.

lawrencewendall · Oct 15, 2010

and more

lawrencewendall · Oct 15, 2010

lawrencewendall · Oct 15, 2010

the last

h2u · Oct 15, 2010

You forgot the "money shot" - the barrel shank is the picture needed to compare others against.
I can tell you that you have a depot refurb 91/30 with many of the same unidentified markings that adorn most other Mosins.

To help with pictures of individual stampings, I'd visit 7.62x54r.net.
On the main page, scroll down to the "Identification" section and click on "Mosin Nagant Rifle Guide to Proofs and Markings". From that menu you want to check out two sections. First, go to the top and click "Russian and Soviet Mosin Nagant Marks"- make sure you check out all 30 rows of pictures.

The second section to check out will be, "Unknown Mosin Nagant Marks". If you still have questions after those two with a refurb '43 Izhevsk 91/30, we're gonna need a YouTube video with a 360 degree close ups of the entire rifle

ETA: Just saw the additional pictures- very cool Hungarian cleaning rod.

Mdeng · Oct 15, 2010

The rifle looks like a forced match S/N 91/30. The Russians reused everything. The C on the butt plate a Sestroryetsk parts mark. I will look at them a little closer a let you know what I find. Mdeng

WSM · Oct 15, 2010

It might help if you took pictures of the import markings :innocent0

lawrencewendall · Oct 15, 2010

WSM said:
It might help if you took pictures of the import markings

What are they? :innocent0

Lou45 · Oct 15, 2010

lawrencewendall said:
What are they?

Try around the receiver area or the barrel forward of the stock out to muzzle. A few of the markings on the left side of the barrel shank and a few of the numbers (7783) stamped/restamped in other places look as if the font could be, uh, everyone is going to call me crazy so I'll wait to see the import marks before I make a totally wild off the wall guess here.

lawrencewendall · Oct 15, 2010

Lou45 said:
Try around the receiver area or the barrel forward of the stock out to muzzle. A few of the markings on the left side of the barrel shank and a few of the numbers (7783) stamped/restamped in other places look as if the font could be, uh, everyone is going to call me crazy so I'll wait to see the import marks before I make a totally wild off the wall guess here.

For reasons I won't say, THERE ARE NO IMPORT MARKINGS. nuff said. (or so Ive been told) :innocent0

h2u · Oct 15, 2010

Talk to us Lou. If you keep clues to yourself, how are we supposed to learn

It's obviously been through a chunk of Europe with the Austrian stamps and European fire proof markings. That and the Hungarian cleaning rod and barrel band-we know it's not the standard Ukrainian refurb imported into the US.

fivepointstar · Oct 15, 2010

nice 43 Izzy....looks in good condtion. how is the bore and the muzzle?

lawrencewendall · Oct 16, 2010

fivepointstar said:
nice 43 Izzy....looks in good condtion. how is the bore and the muzzle?

It was still sealed in a block of wax when it was was found in an attic in Germany. Cleaned up and box shot to verify (1990). I've shot a box to verify (2009). To my best knowledge, that is it. FLAME THROWER!!

fivepointstar · Oct 16, 2010

lawrencewendall said:
It was still sealed in a block of wax when it was was found in an attic in Germany. Cleaned up and box shot to verify (1990). I've shot a box to verify (2009). To my best knowledge, that is it. FLAME THROWER!!

SWEET!!!!! :party29:

Lou45 · Oct 16, 2010

h2u said:
Talk to us Lou. If you keep clues to yourself, how are we supposed to learn

It's obviously been through a chunk of Europe with the Austrian stamps and European fire proof markings. That and the Hungarian cleaning rod and barrel band-we know it's not the standard Ukrainian refurb imported into the US.

lawrencewendall said:
It was still sealed in a block of wax when it was was found in an attic in Germany. Cleaned up and box shot to verify (1990). I've shot a box to verify (2009). To my best knowledge, that is it. FLAME THROWER!!

Alas, I think I got the evidence I needed to support my observances in the posted photos. My crazy off the wall guess just may be right but no way for certain, so that will be my disclaimer. The font of some, but not all of the 7783 stamps/restamps appears to be of a different origin than Russia. The buttplate large number stamp is a big question and I am totally out on that. Left side of barrel shank appears to have a GERMAN nitro proof (eagle over N), the 311 possibly being bore diameter in inch pattern and not metric. The "7.62 Russ" caliber designation, hhhmmmm, perhaps stamped before the development and/or widespread use of the 7.62x39 cartridge??? My guess is this gun has spent alot of time in Germany and possibly for sporting use by the German people a fair bit after WWII before the German gunmakers could get back in operation to produce the quality sporting guns they are so known for. Bear in mind, all of this is speculation on my behalf knowing the history of the time to a decent extent. When I saw and posted yesterday I stated "off the wall" and don't call me "crazy" :innocent0

idea and didn't want to post until I had some more input on this.

What do you think guys??? Am I crazy???

h2u · Oct 16, 2010

Definitely not crazy, Lou....at least in this instance

The "7.62 Russian", "eagle over N", "311" with that cross-hatched box or shield, and the "WWF" Austrian mark are the German Federal Pressure Proofs on the left side of the barrel shank as required by German law to be imported into the country.

Lou45 said:
Alas, I think I got the evidence I needed to support my observances in the posted photos. My crazy off the wall guess just may be right but no way for certain, so that will be my disclaimer. The font of some, but not all of the 7783 stamps/restamps appears to be of a different origin than Russia. The buttplate large number stamp is a big question and I am totally out on that. Left side of barrel shank appears to have a GERMAN nitro proof (eagle over N), the 311 possibly being bore diameter in inch pattern and not metric. The "7.62 Russ" caliber designation, hhhmmmm, perhaps stamped before the development and/or widespread use of the 7.62x39 cartridge??? My guess is this gun has spent alot of time in Germany and possibly for sporting use by the German people a fair bit after WWII before the German gunmakers could get back in operation to produce the quality sporting guns they are so known for. Bear in mind, all of this is speculation on my behalf knowing the history of the time to a decent extent. When I saw and posted yesterday I stated "off the wall" and don't call me "crazy" idea and didn't want to post until I had some more input on this.

What do you think guys??? Am I crazy???

lawrencewendall · Oct 16, 2010

Have got some really good feedback so far. Am able to partially reconstruct this Bessie's history. Here's shots of the bolt markings. Thanks everyone for your expertise!

WSM · Oct 16, 2010

Lou45 said:
Alas, I think I got the evidence I needed to support my observances in the posted photos. My crazy off the wall guess just may be right but no way for certain, so that will be my disclaimer. The font of some, but not all of the 7783 stamps/restamps appears to be of a different origin than Russia. The buttplate large number stamp is a big question and I am totally out on that. Left side of barrel shank appears to have a GERMAN nitro proof (eagle over N), the 311 possibly being bore diameter in inch pattern and not metric. The "7.62 Russ" caliber designation, hhhmmmm, perhaps stamped before the development and/or widespread use of the 7.62x39 cartridge??? My guess is this gun has spent alot of time in Germany and possibly for sporting use by the German people a fair bit after WWII before the German gunmakers could get back in operation to produce the quality sporting guns they are so known for. Bear in mind, all of this is speculation on my behalf knowing the history of the time to a decent extent. When I saw and posted yesterday I stated "off the wall" and don't call me "crazy" idea and didn't want to post until I had some more input on this.

What do you think guys??? Am I crazy???

We came to the conclusion that his is an East German import with some Hungarian parts thrown on it. That would make sense since the gun was acquired in West Germany in the 80's. Mr. Lawrence could fill you in better on exactly when and how he acquired this firearm, I did read that the East Germans used Mosin's with blanks to scare potential defectors from the wall. I can imagine it was quite effective having a fireball of that size coming at you

.

Identify This Mosin

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