ATF Issues Cease & Desist for Honey Badger Pistol

teratos · Oct 10, 2020

pidevildog07 said:
You guys are a hoot!!

Yeah, because the first rule of WWNC is to flaunt it....

ed bernay · Oct 10, 2020

If ACB gets on SCOTUS, might be a good case to go so someone from the ATF can articulate how an ar15 with a 15 inch barrel is so much more dangerous than one with a 16 inch barrel.

fidelity · Oct 11, 2020

snallygaster said:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I got the news correctly on this, it was an ATF field officer in Boston who issued the determination. Apparently past determinations of this type of import are done by someone higher up in the food chain, and perhaps more typically from DC area. Maybe the individual had the support of his superiors in sending out the letter, or maybe he took the "initiative". If it's the latter, it is troubling how someone not really accountable to voters can easily make something illegal such that it affects 100s or 1000s of citizens. I realize that this is a problem with a number of regulatory agencies, and we are more attuned to the actions of the BATFE.

outrider58 · Oct 11, 2020

fidelity said:
If I got the news correctly on this, it was an ATF field officer in Boston who issued the determination. Apparently past determinations of this type of import are done by someone higher up in the food chain, and perhaps more typically from DC area. Maybe the individual had the support of his superiors in sending out the letter, or maybe he took the "initiative". If it's the latter, it is troubling how someone not really accountable to voters can easily make something illegal such that it affects 100s or 1000s of citizens. I realize that this is a problem with a number of regulatory agencies, and we are more attuned to the actions of the BATFE.

Welcome back old friend. I hope this isn't a short visit.

John from MD · Oct 11, 2020

fidelity said:
If I got the news correctly on this, it was an ATF field officer in Boston who issued the determination. Apparently past determinations of this type of import are done by someone higher up in the food chain, and perhaps more typically from DC area. Maybe the individual had the support of his superiors in sending out the letter, or maybe he took the "initiative". If it's the latter, it is troubling how someone not really accountable to voters can easily make something illegal such that it affects 100s or 1000s of citizens. I realize that this is a problem with a number of regulatory agencies, and we are more attuned to the actions of the BATFE.

It is not unusual for determinations to be done at the Regional level. If everything had to go to a Headquarters lawyer, the Nation's businesses would grind to a halt.

When the industry challenges the Determination Letter, then the Agency Headquarters law staff will review it and either support it, send it back for changes or cancel it.

Just about every regulatory agency conducts business this way. Hopefully, enough businesses will challenge it and it will go away.

SkiPatrolDude · Oct 14, 2020

Major kudos to Q for offering to pay anyone's tax stamp to file a form 1 with their Honey Badger pistol. It doesn't make this situation any better, but that's a pretty boss move by Q if you ask me.

I can't figure out how to embed the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7koDMnSksEg

lazarus · Oct 14, 2020

fidelity said:
If I got the news correctly on this, it was an ATF field officer in Boston who issued the determination. Apparently past determinations of this type of import are done by someone higher up in the food chain, and perhaps more typically from DC area. Maybe the individual had the support of his superiors in sending out the letter, or maybe he took the "initiative". If it's the latter, it is troubling how someone not really accountable to voters can easily make something illegal such that it affects 100s or 1000s of citizens. I realize that this is a problem with a number of regulatory agencies, and we are more attuned to the actions of the BATFE.

On your last, because Congress can't legislate down to the level of regulation. You think current laws are long and bad, try bills that are tens of thousands of pages. Regulation has to exist. Sometimes it is bad, sometimes it is neutral, sometimes it is good.

On top of that, Congress critters aren't remotely experts in anything other than getting elected. You DO want people who have experience in the subject matter taking the general intent of congress and turning it in to regulation.

It is congress job if regulators "go too far" to step in and fix the law that was being misinterpreted. Same thing with the judiciary. Plenty of checks on out of control regulators. Supposing they are actually out of control.

I'll agree if it was a field agent, that sounds like a decision that needs to be approved at a much higher level. Especially when it is effectively overturning a prior approval. That's the sort of thing that feels like it needs to be done at a senior management level, if not with executive sign off.

Does ATF have ALJs at all, speaking of over turning and interpreting regulations? I don't think I've ever actually heard of them having any. Seems like the sort of thing that should be appealable some how.

Devonian · Oct 14, 2020

How the ATF measured the Honey Badger vs the proper way, parallel to the bore.

Devonian · Oct 14, 2020

A 60 day suspension of the cease and desist letter was issued by the ATF today.

Doctor_M · Oct 14, 2020

Devonian said:
How the ATF measured the Honey Badger vs the proper way, parallel to the bore.

That speaks volumes.

m1carbine · Oct 14, 2020

Here is the notice from Q https://mailchi.mp/liveqordie.com/60-day-cease-and-desist-suspension.

woodline · Oct 14, 2020

Devonian said:
How the ATF measured the Honey Badger vs the proper way, parallel to the bore.

Oh for heavens’ sakes, haven’t they already been spanked in court for doing this?

danb · Oct 14, 2020

fbi_surveillance_van said:
Oh for heavens’ sakes, haven’t they already been spanked in court for doing this?

that is a fake photo with the Honey badger photoshopped into the original photo from that court case.

Sometimes I think that the S is MDS stands for gullible.

danb · Oct 14, 2020

m1carbine said:
Here is the notice from Q https://mailchi.mp/liveqordie.com/60-day-cease-and-desist-suspension.

We believe this 60-day suspension is an effort to put manufacturers, distributors, and consumers at ease, and to postpone the issue past the presidential election in hopes that a new administration will take a different view.

I hope they are not expecting people to believe Shotgun Joe Biden will come to a different conclusion than get-the-guns-without-due-process Donald Trump.

shadow116 · Oct 14, 2020

danb said:
that is a fake photo with the Honey badger photoshopped into the original photo from that court case.

Sometimes I think that the S is MDS stands for gullible.

Wrong. I am not saying that Honey Badger picture is an actual ATFE picture, but it is not from the original case photo.

Try again.

Devonian · Oct 14, 2020

danb said:
that is a fake photo with the Honey badger photoshopped into the original photo from that court case.

Sometimes I think that the S is MDS stands for gullible.

That photo was on Q’s Instagram page and they said it was from the letter they received from the ATF.

danb · Oct 14, 2020

Devonian said:
That photo was on Q’s Instagram page and they said it was from the letter they received from the ATF.

oh, they posted it on Instagram. Why didn't you say so? I totally change my mind.

Devonian · Oct 14, 2020

danb said:
oh, they posted it on Instagram. Why didn't you say so? I totally change my mind.

Yeah I know almost as trustworthy as some rando dude on a forum saying it’s fake... My point wasn’t that it was on Instagram, it was that the company said it was from the letter.

How do you know the picture isn’t real? If you’re going to call me and the majority of the forum out for being gullible where’s your proof that it’s a photoshop?

danb · Oct 14, 2020

Devonian said:
Yeah I know almost as trustworthy as some rando dude on a forum saying it’s fake... My point wasn’t that it was on Instagram, it was that the company said it was from the letter.

How do you know the picture isn’t real? If you’re going to call me and the majority of the forum out for being gullible where’s your proof that it’s a photoshop?

I am totally agreeing with you. I belive everything companies post on Instagram. It obviously happened just the way they said.

Eta: now if it were that other social media site, I might suggest satire or poking fun at the arbitrariness of the ATF, but since its Instagram I'm sure it totally happened the way they claimed. I don't have an Instagram account im not smart enough.

OLM-Medic · Oct 15, 2020

Where did the come up with this magic LOP thing anyway? I’m pretty sure many pistol braces when fully extended would exceed the LOP the ATF likes, wouldn’t they?

ATF Issues Cease & Desist for Honey Badger Pistol

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