MD Police Ammunition

mikec · Oct 20, 2012

Fish passed away. Damn cancer, I hate that disease. BTW, it was AZ, not CO.

swinokur · Oct 20, 2012

But his case served as an example of why ammunition choice is not grounds for prosecution, even if in another state. Gives some guidance to the rest of us IMO

MDMOUNTAINEER · Oct 20, 2012

I use handloads in my HD setup. I trust my loads waaaay more than factory ammo.

Bang · Oct 20, 2012

tss1004 said:
I use handloads in my HD setup. I trust my loads waaaay more than factory ammo.

Amen! No one has more of a vested interest in my HD ammo going bang and not blowing up or not squibbing than me.

Tyeraxus · Oct 20, 2012

mikec said:
Several folks in the past have suggested that a private person should carry the same handgun and ammo that the local cops carry. The theory is that if it is good enough for the police, it is a good choice for a private person.

It's a little more involved than that. If it's the same guy I read a couple of years ago, the reasoning was that if you use what the local PD uses, it's a lot harder for a prosecutor to make a "disproportionate force" case stick. He had some story about a jury convicting because even though it was a good shoot, they said the homeowner used way more force than necessary to stop the perp because he used a .45, but the police use 9mm and they stop perps all the time. Never saw a case cite for that though, so I came away thinking it was a thought exercise.

1time · Oct 21, 2012

Baltimore County uses Win SXT's. They have not used Federal ammo in a few years. They carried the Rem Golden Saber before the Win.

Scott92 · Oct 21, 2012

Thanks, again, all for the conversation. This is great info.

Mega · Oct 21, 2012

Blaster229 said:
What is his reason? I am guessing for a defense saying " If it's good enough for my local PD it's good enough for me"?

A lot of people think that way.
I'd rather have something better than low-bid state-and-local purchase though...

I load up with Hornady Critical Defense.

Kimerazor · Oct 21, 2012

Name Taken said:
When you get paid to speak sometimes you'll say something that really has no merit. Other times since you get paid you come up with some relatively crazy stuff that you can rationalize and someone might buy into it.

IMHO.....buy a good quality JHP round....fire a few boxes to make sure it works...and be happy.

Massed Ayoob backs up everything he says whether it is with his experience in the court room, speaking with PD's or ER doctors, or doing testing himself. He does NOT "say something that really has no merit" because he is paid.

He recommends using the ammo of your PD, but recommends what works best in your firearm.

NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
GRRN Supporter

Name Taken · Oct 22, 2012

Kimerazor said:
Massed Ayoob backs up everything he says whether it is with his experience in the court room, speaking with PD's or ER doctors, or doing testing himself. He does NOT "say something that really has no merit" because he is paid.

He recommends using the ammo of your PD, but recommends what works best in your firearm.

NRA Life Member
SAF Life Member
GRRN Supporter

Yeah I know...people take every word he speaks like it's gospel from the lord himself.

He has a lot of good points...no one is right all the time.

I feel this issue he stretches it a bit much. It's a non issue.

Get what works at a price you can afford.

joppaj · Oct 22, 2012

My Department uses 165gr Gold Dots in our Glock 22. I have never had an ammunition related malfunction (hell, my malfunctions were all caused by poor grip). In every shooting that I'm personally aware of, the round has performed well and has stopped the attacker.

Scott92 · Oct 25, 2012

Thank you all for taking the time to offer me your thoughts on this issue. Great conversation and you answered my question.

Chasbo00 · Oct 25, 2012

Worth a close read:

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

HT4 · Oct 25, 2012

Name Taken said:
It's all silly fodder really.

Guns in any caliber with any load can be lethal.....it's arm chairing by a bunch of folks who have no experiance in the real world.

It would take an expert about 10 minutes to put any claims like that to rest with a judge and maybe 15 minutes with a jury.

Mas put an example in one of his books (I don't rememmber which one) in which a prosecutor argued that the fact that a guy carried a 10mm pistol loaded with hollow points was evidence of his nefarious intent... he noted that carrying the same load as the local cops would put an end to such an argument (or at least make the prosecutor look the fool).

Name Taken · Oct 25, 2012

HT4 said:
Mas put an example in one of his books (I don't rememmber which one) in which a prosecutor argued that the fact that a guy carried a 10mm pistol loaded with hollow points was evidence of his nefarious intent... he noted that carrying the same load as the local cops would put an end to such an argument (or at least make the prosecutor look the fool).

Bad points get brought up all the time in court. Was the guy convicted because of this?

If not...then it's a non issue as case law has been determined already.

Really....it's a point that an "expert" could refute in about 10 minutes in a court room.

swinokur · Oct 25, 2012

As I previously posted defendant Harold Fish was accused of this because he carried a 10mm pistol. He eventually prevailed despite an unethical prosecutor and a very crappy Judge.

http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/

midcountyg · Oct 25, 2012

To answer op, MSP was carrying hydra shock last I knew. I can make a phone call and check for certain if that important. I personally use Winchester PDX.

jrumann59 · Oct 25, 2012

midcountygunshop said:
To answer op, MSP was carrying hydra shock last I knew. I can make a phone call and check for certain if that important. I personally use Winchester PDX.

Hydra-shock is such a poor performer against thick clothing, especially with all the newer JHP technology that Federal, Winchester etc are using.

BlueHeeler · Oct 25, 2012

Scott92 said:
Thank you all very very much for your time answering my question. I really appreciate it. My understanding of why it was recommended was that local police departments have completed testing for the local environment of weather, uses, and situations and therefore you would be getting the advantage of their study for your decision making.

That seems kind of silly. The cops do not necessarily buy what is the most effective. Their requirements are significantly different than personal HD. PD may have to consider cost, training 100’s or 1000’s of officers, contracts, politics, or simply some high up dude made the absolute determination Brand X is what will be used. They may even be using different calibers and firearms than a HD gun.

At the end of the day it is your life and what runs best through your gun. If it is life an death, I want the best option to be alive to deal with court.

ozwyn · Oct 25, 2012

Maybe I am a grump but I remember reading his stuff a lot and realizing over time it gelt like month to month his entire viewpoint would change, depending on who's product he was selling that issue.

yeah... I am a grump.

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