SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

Boondock Saint · Jul 1, 2012

eyesinpines said:
I appreciate and respect your point of view, and I have a question.

At what point WOULD you begin to get just a little impatient? I'm not being a smart #$$, I really would like to know.

People get impatient on their own personal schedules. The perspective that needs to be understood is that 1) the wheels of the court system turn very slowly and 2) we're moving pretty damn fast, relatively speaking.

"Hurry up and wait" isn't a popular concept, but it's the order of the day here. Relax, take some deep breaths and "enjoy" this ridiculously hot weather. The decision on the stay will come when it comes; days, weeks or months isn't relevant. It's small potatoes. The appeal at CA4 is far more important.

swinokur · Jul 1, 2012

eyesinpines said:
I appreciate and respect your point of view, and I have a question.

At what point WOULD you begin to get just a little impatient? I'm not being a smart #$$, I really would like to know.

I wouldn't get impatient. It's not like it could fall through the cracks. Judge Legg is doing other things as well and as has been pointed out, it's moving fairly quickly for this kind of litigation.

The other reason is that since I cannot have any input to when or what it is decided, why waste the energy? so I just wait but move on with other things. I don't want to focus too much time on it because it is not in our hands

cad68m_m · Jul 1, 2012

Boondock Saint said:
People get impatient on their own personal schedules. The perspective that needs to be understood is that 1) the wheels of the court system turn very slowly and 2) we're moving pretty damn fast, relatively speaking.

"Hurry up and wait" isn't a popular concept, but it's the order of the day here. Relax, take some deep breaths and "enjoy" this ridiculously hot weather. The decision on the stay will come when it comes; days, weeks or months isn't relevant. It's small potatoes. The appeal at CA4 is far more important.

AliasNeo07 · Jul 1, 2012

I for one hope this never reaches SCOTUS. I don't think we'll win. I may have missed it but which judge(s) are we up against at CA4?

Dogabutila · Jul 2, 2012

How can we lose at scotus? As aptly stated by legg, you can't ration a right. If carry is a right, there has to be a method for everybody to do so if they wish (*argument about felons etc). Its clearly rationing based on the fact that he was an approved person.... and then had approval arbitrarily revoked.

So, unless 'bear' doesn't mean anything then there's no way we can lose this one. Its not even a currently iffy thing like minors or felons or anything.

clandestine · Jul 2, 2012

Dogabutila said:
How can we lose at scotus? As aptly stated by legg, you can't ration a right. If carry is a right, there has to be a method for everybody to do so if they wish (*argument about felons etc). Its clearly rationing based on the fact that he was an approved person.... and then had approval arbitrarily revoked.

So, unless 'bear' doesn't mean anything then there's no way we can lose this one. Its not even a currently iffy thing like minors or felons or anything.

How can we lose? Simple answer?

Justice Roberts. They have dirt on him, his life/family has been endangered, or hes lost his mind.

One other possibility could be; Roberts is a mad Genius playing a game of Chess with moves thinking so far ahead that we cant comprehend them because we are mere mortals.

gmhowell · Jul 2, 2012

clandestine said:
Justice Roberts. They have dirt on him, his life/family has been endangered, or hes lost his mind.

You forgot your hat: :tinfoil:

The other answer is that Roberts has been wholly consistent in his judicial thinking. That's what I got from an article at volokh.com the other day.

Merlin · Jul 2, 2012

clandestine said:
How can we lose? Simple answer?

Justice Roberts. They have dirt on him, his life/family has been endangered, or hes lost his mind.

One other possibility could be; Roberts is a mad Genius playing a game of Chess with moves thinking so far ahead that we cant comprehend them because we are mere mortals.

What do you think of the likelihood that Roberts voted for Obama-care to shock the Nation into voting Obama out of office thinking that Romney would change it all back anyway?

Patrick · Jul 2, 2012

mr h said:
Easy there, big fella...

I'm one of the guys who's ok with the long deliberation...

Just trying to lighten it up, is all...

I quoted your words (but not your name) for the same reason: to keep it light. I did catch your toungue-in-cheek sarcasm, and I tried to go with it. We're all just hanging around shooting crap while on hiatus. No offense intended.

swinokur · Jul 2, 2012

AliasNeo07 said:
I for one hope this never reaches SCOTUS. I don't think we'll win. I may have missed it but which judge(s) are we up against at CA4?

Not announced in advance. We find out the day of the hearing

Merlin · Jul 2, 2012

Patrick said:
You guys are like a high school girl waiting by the phone for the captain of the football team to call her!

Judge Legg has moved to Senor status. That means he's out of rotation unless he feels like it. He makes his own schedule and pretty much stands in when he feels like it. Nice job if you can get it.

In lieu of retirement, the system is trying to get judges to go into senior status. The whole system (everywhere) is seriously overtaxed. Senior judges might not sit standard calendars, but they still work. In the last year we've seen Chief Justice Roberts ask Senior judges to take on cases in multiple circuits that are not their own. He's using them like a "ready reserve".

We need more judges, but won't get them until the knuckleheads in Congress get their act together. Until then, the courts will use every trick they got, including Senior judgeship.

Hi Patrick,

No disrespect intended, I know and understand everything your saying is very true spot on. I just do not feel it is OK as some seem to feel. So please forgive me if I do not feel sorry for Legg's lack of work load or his ability to do as much or as little as he feels like.

I feel a judge that has the power of the future of people lives in their hands is not like a school teacher or a banker that is retiring or semi-retiring. I think they should feel a higher level of obligation to complete the cases they are involved in a timely manner and not go into an "I get to it when I get to it" mode just because they can. Just because they can does not make it right.

I also like to ask if I'm the only one that feels it is very convenient that Legg was elevated to this Senor Status right after the this particular trial last March? How lucky for Maryland that Legg is now in a semi-retired, nose not on the grind stone mode. Or am I misunderstanding how this work?

These rights that Maryland has been keeping its people from enjoying are very important to many, and if anyone other than a government took them away from us it would be considered a crime that someone should be punished for. It would be nice if Legg could work a little harder between rounds of golf or lunch with old friends, or whatever to correct this injustice that has been going on for years.

We look at judge Legg as a friend to what we think is right because of his ruling, but I do not think we need to carry him around on a silk pillow as we make excuses for why he hasn't acted, even if his action comes in a statement saying how he plans to keep this stay in place through the outcome in the 4th.

Personally, What I think is going on is Legg is in a place where he could not care less about what's going on with this issue one way or the other. I would not even be so sure he has taking the time to even read any of the briefs he requested. And I think the likelihood of this stay staying right where it is all of the way through the 4th is very good.

Yes, we all know these wheels turn very slowly, but that does not make it right, and it does not mean we should be happy about it.

Also I think the way our society treats judges and congressmen as if they are some type of royalty instead of the normal respect that we give anyone else is a crime in itself.

swinokur · Jul 2, 2012

Merlin, your post has not one supportable fact in it. But I'm sure Judge Legg will take this into account and stay up later to make you happy.

You apparently are unwilling to accept the explanations from some savvy people here (Patrick, Krucam, ESQ.) I'm sure your vast legal experience has shown you otherwise.

Sheesh.

Back on topic now..

Hopalong · Jul 2, 2012

Merlin said:
Hi Patrick,

No disrespect intended, I know and understand everything your saying is very true spot on. I just do not feel it is OK as some seem to feel. So please forgive me if I do not feel sorry for Legg's lack of work load or his ability to do as much or as little as he feels like.

I feel a judge that has the power of the future of people lives in their hands is not like a school teacher or a banker that is retiring or semi-retiring. I think they should feel a higher level of obligation to complete the cases they are involved in a timely manner and not go into an "I get to it when I get to it" mode just because they can. Just because they can does not make it right.

I also like to ask if I'm the only one that feels it is very convenient that Legg was elevated to this Senor Status right after the this particular trial last March? How lucky for Maryland that Legg is now in a semi-retired, nose not on the grind stone mode. Or am I misunderstanding how this work?

These rights that Maryland has been keeping its people from enjoying are very important to many, and if anyone other than a government took them away from us it would be considered a crime that someone should be punished for. It would be nice if Legg could work a little harder between rounds of golf or lunch with old friends, or whatever to correct this injustice that has been going on for years.

We look at judge Legg as a friend to what we think is right because of his ruling, but I do not think we need to carry him around on a silk pillow as we make excuses for why he hasn't acted, even if his action comes in a statement saying how he plans to keep this stay in place through the outcome in the 4th.

Personally, What I think is going on is Legg is in a place where he could not care less about what's going on with this issue one way or the other. I would not even be so sure he has taking the time to even read any of the briefs he requested. And I think the likelihood of this stay staying right where it is all of the way through the 4th is very good.

Yes, we all know these wheels turn very slowly, but that does not make it right, and it does not mean we should be happy about it.

Also I think the way our society treats judges and congressmen as if they are some type of royalty instead of the normal respect that we give anyone else is a crime in itself.

Merlin:

1. Do you have any idea how much interest Judge Legg has shown in this case compared to "typical" civil cases? (Here's a hint, at orals he was very keenly interested)

2. Do you have any idea how many other cases Judge Legg is working on?

3. Do you know what proportion of those other cases are criminal cases? (They do take priority you know.)

4. Do you have any idea if maybe, just maybe, the man is taking a nice summer vacation with his family? (For all of the treatment like "royalty" that you complain about, the same people seem to forget that they get vacations sometimes too.)

Unless you can answer all four of those questions with absolute certainty, you have zero to complain about. Zip. Zilch. Nada. The system is overloaded. It moves slowly. We know that needs to be fixed. But, unless you know something that we don't, it's got absolutely nothing to do with Judge Legg delaying this particular ruling for some mysterious reason.

Merlin · Jul 2, 2012

swinokur said:
Merlin, your post has not one supportable fact in it. But I'm sure Judge Legg will take this into account and stay up later to make you happy.

Back on topic now..

Sheesh.

I hope your 100% right and I'm 100% wrong. Remember, as far as I know there has not been one ounce of fact saying the Legg plans on doing anything with this stay after the briefs were turned in, but we are all acting as if he said he would. If I'm wrong about that please show me where he did say he would.

I understand why any of us would not like what I posted (I don't like it, but I think it may be true) because if any of what I said were to be true it would not be good for our cause as well as the outcome of what may happen.

swinokur · Jul 2, 2012

Once again, your vast legal knowledge is helping you out. Federal Judges follow procedures, not whim. He is required by precedent and procedure and will issue a ruling. Do you have any facts to support your post?

Of course you don't.

Merlin · Jul 2, 2012

Hopalong said:
Merlin:

1. Do you have any idea how much interest Judge Legg has shown in this case compared to "typical" civil cases? (Here's a hint, at orals he was very keenly interested)

2. Do you have any idea how many other cases Judge Legg is working on?

3. Do you know what proportion of those other cases are criminal cases? (They do take priority you know.)

4. Do you have any idea if maybe, just maybe, the man is taking a nice summer vacation with his family? (For all of the treatment like "royalty" that you complain about, the same people seem to forget that they get vacations sometimes too.)

Unless you can answer all four of those questions with absolute certainty, you have zero to complain about. Zip. Zilch. Nada. The system is overloaded. It moves slowly. We know that needs to be fixed. But, unless you know something that we don't, it's got absolutely nothing to do with Judge Legg delaying this particular ruling for some mysterious reason.

Your right, but here is the thing. You do not have the first clue either.

swinokur · Jul 2, 2012

I am done wasting my bandwidth on this argument.

"Better to keep your moth closed and let people think you a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

"There is none so blind as he who will not see."

Hopalong · Jul 2, 2012

Merlin said:
Your right, but here is the thing. You do not have the first clue either.

And you also don't see me theorizing about the issue, do you?

EDIT: So can we ALL please stop with the conspiracy theories, bellyaching, and general off-topic posting and just wait for the decision about the stay? THAT will be something worth posting about in this thread.

eruby · Jul 2, 2012

swinokur said:
I am done wasting my bandwidth on this argument.

"Better to keep your moth closed and let people think you a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

"There is none so blind as he who will not see."

Merlin · Jul 2, 2012

Hopalong said:
And you also don't see me theorizing about the issue, do you?

EDIT: So can we ALL please stop with the conspiracy theories, bellyaching, and general off-topic posting and just wait for the decision about the stay? THAT will be something worth posting about in this thread.

I can't remember any of your posts to say that you did or didn't. But we are all guilty of assuming (or theorizing) that Judge Legg plans on doing something with this stay one way or another after these briefs without any facts. But that's what we hope he will do so we are all acting as if he said he would.

So what your saying, it's OK if support the (line of thinking without fact one) that he plans on acting on the stay after the briefs as soon as he can. But it's not OK if support the ( line of thinking without fact one) That this case is so far from what he thinks is important?

I think the fact that you think anything at all will be done about the stay is nothing more then a conspiracy theories that we want to believe.

Again, the stay is in place, and all I'm staying is that I think that it will stay in place until the case in the 4th is over. No, I do not have any facts to back that up. But it is equally true that there is no facts that say Legg will do anything but let the stay ride either.

So it all comes down to what conspiracy theories you want to believe. Yours or mine. But please do not think that what you think will happen is any less of a conspiracy theories then what I think will happen.

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