HPRB still in effect?

Stoveman · Apr 30, 2018

Schipperke said:
For the record, I do shoot with two neighbors with extensive firearms basements and tax stamps. Talking six figures easy each in their collections. One is an excellent three gunner. I'll be at an event of where there will be near 100 shooters, and I'll maybe be one of the dozen that didn't vote Hillary. Some of these guys worked in the Obama White House. I'd bet you well over half there would not be in favor of conceal carry, and find laws limiting it very good. I'll bet none of them have heard of MDS.

There are plenty of folks who collect and use firearms that don't concern themselves with new gun laws, and absolutely fine with may issue. If I were to mention "1302" or "Red Flag Law", they'd say "what is that." I went shooting with three other "Marylanders" couple days ago, we traveled to one WV acreage. Two were not familiar with Maryland's magazine law. One had a new Daniels Defense MK12. I gifted a new magazine in WV to one shooter and explained things, and of course that was an eye opener to them. Those three Saturday were pro 2A and Constitutional carry etc. My point is don't be so surprised at the post being railed against, because you are fooling yourself that a lot of gun owners don't agree with those sentiments. So right out of the box, instead of making civil points countering his position, he's labeled a troll (maybe he is) anti, and then sure some ad hominem. Carry on..

How many of your ignorant shooting buddies go into a gun forum dealing specifically with these issues and tell everyone else that they are wrong and stupid? This guy has shown through several posts in different threads that he has a combative attitude and deserves everything he's getting, IMO.

welder516 · Apr 30, 2018

I wonder if a person that says i am for 2A and then says , it is okay to limit guns and rifles or limit carry .

The second amendment is not a sliding scale , i kinda thought the founding fathers said something about "Not Being Infringed" . Civil rights and the Constitution are not a "thing" that has kinda's or maybe's or move the issue around to fit a belief one may have .
It is very possible the guy is real , but on the post he tells Eruby to go "F" himself and been disrespectful shows me he has a lack of something (you pick the something)

I am not sure with post post i have explained things well but i tried .

GTOGUNNER · Apr 30, 2018

Clearly guy is to busy to vote anyway. Plus his vote would never matter, why should he waste his time. L

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RepublicOfFranklin · Apr 30, 2018

eruby said:
FULL of win!!!!

sports89man7 - I can see by your lack of a proper introduction, as well as your continuous recalcitrance in fostering 2A rights, that we are all of us correct in our presumption you are a troll.

And the only thing worse than a troll, is a statist, FUDD troll, of which, you are all three.

I concur. Sad troll is troll, and possibly worse, a fudd. He hits all the hallmarks of trolling (poorly I might add) and will no doubt keep it up and launch into more of these “let me list all of the lines sure to enrage people on this site” posts.

Probably has usernames on Beantown forums posting “ I used to play in the minors and I can tell you the Yankees will just always be better than the Sox. I’m a Sox fan but let’s be honest, they’ll never truly beat the Yankees”

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Schipperke · Apr 30, 2018

Stoveman said:
How many of your ignorant shooting buddies go into a gun forum dealing specifically with these issues and tell everyone else that they are wrong and stupid?This guy has shown through several posts in different threads that he has a combative attitude and deserves everything he's getting, IMO.

My ignorant shooting buddies

Point proven.. Just hope you don't end up wheeled in critical at Suburban Hospital, one of the ignorant buddies may have your life in his hands.

they are wrong and stupid?

You infer that from below? I'm looking at the comment, not who posted, not aware he previously insulted a friend. I'm only looking, and reflecting on the comment. He had many "I" , not fining any "you are"

I'm for shall issue, and my reply was an argument why. How do I read that below as if I'm wrong and stupid? It's the authors opinion.

sports89man7 said:
i just think the whole thing is pointless to be honest. i don't see the point of why you need to carry a gun with you everywhere you go. i can see people carrying if they were in Baltimore city. but cmon guys lets be real here you want to spend all that time and money fighting the system which is going to beat you every time. . i have a wear and carry permit with restrictions on it. i used to be an armed security guard. i don't see the point of going through all that redtape to get an unrestricted permit. am i going to sit there and waste my time and money arguing with a board on my 2nd amendment rights? NOPE. having watched the testimony and hearing people say that they need a permit because "ISIS is out to get them" is almost laughable. you don't need a gun to carry with you to the grocery store. unless you are in a high crime area you need a ccw. there are alternatives like tasers and pepper spray. like i said before you label me as a troll i am a Maryland state gun collector, a member of the NRA, and a combat vet.

I read lots of conjecture on how many gun owners there are in Maryland. That never then gets whittled down to how many really give a damn about gun control laws. I'd bet most do, but perhaps a significant portion doesn't care. There was an obvious example nationwide 4/14 , for those that pin demonstrations as a marker. MSI has been around a decade, token membership fee and what, a 1000 maybe? Not saying you have to be a member to be pro carry but I do find a bit of reflection in that very very low percentage of Maryland gun owners. If there are a significant number of gun owners in America, all the selling of 2A is better spent on them, but ironically they're immediately attacked for their view. Great way to convince.

Rack&Roll · Apr 30, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
When you lick their boots, does it taste like chicken?

sports89man7 said:
i don't know what it tastes like, ive never been arrested before.... unlike you...im going to bed, i have better things to do with my life then to sit there and argue about a stupid permit. good night.

Well, top o' the morning' to you.

I wasn't arguing with you, I was shaming you for being a boot lick and a cowering cuck.

Sorry if that's argumentative.

Rack&Roll · Apr 30, 2018

sports89man7 said:
my breaking point is confiscation. I think a lot people can agree with that one. once you start confiscation that's it for me, I would declare war on the government. do I think its coming to that point? no. but if we keep having mass shootings we the government might start thinking about confiscation. but in all reality no police chief would enforce confiscation because their whole department would get slaughtered. you can line up all the police departments in the entire country against 100 million gun owners and they would lose everytime.

LOL, this Sportsman only gets sporty when the infringement gets real "infringy".

When you declare war on the government, you and your "love gun control/but love guns" crowd will be veeeeewy scaaaaaaawey.

You'll be surrendering them the minute you get a papercut from the ammo box.

sports89man7 said:
hey guys im a new member and i just got word of this today from an email. this is taking it to another level. i will not comply. this crap has got to stop. we need to call on the militias to organize a protest and we need to tell the legislature that we will not tolerate this. this is beyond ridiculous. i understand this only has one sponsor but my god if this makes it out of committee we are screwed. people if we don't unite and send a message the government is going to strip up of our rights. are any of the Maryland 3%er militias aware of this? if not they need to organize NOW. this is getting out of hand quick.

"we need to call on the militias..." (Hey, someone call Mom....MOM!)

sports89man7 said:
hey guys i was wondering if we could start a debate on the legal definition of arms in the 2nd amendment. now if you look at the 2nd amendment, where it says "the right of the people to keep and bear ARMS" now my question is that the term "arms" is used in a very broad way. does the word "arms" include assault rifles and machine guns and class 3? ill let you be the judge.

EDIT: sorry i had to go but ill elaborate on this subject. lets just say congress puts in an assault rifle ban. could one go to court and argue that the ban is unconstitutional because the 2nd amendment does not elaborate on what kinds of arms that are protected by the 2nd amendment? im only asking this because it brings up a very good argument.

When is this homework assignment due?

sports89man7 said:
as far as the mag ban and the bumpstock ban, i simply laughed at it. NOONE is going to comply and if the anti's think that people will, then they are all kinds of stupid. i understand its an election year but do these people know that no one will comply with these laws??? lmao

"Hey, Anti's.... Mom said we're gonna send THE MILITIAS if you don't cut it out!"

Occam · Apr 30, 2018

Rack&Roll said:
LOL, this Sportsman only gets sporty when the infringement gets real "infringy".

Nah, it's part of the trolling. He specifically mentions his "breaking point" in order to provoke others here into saying something on the record about their willingness to shoot cops. Don't fall for his juvenile Trolling 101 tactics.

Stoveman · Apr 30, 2018

Schipperke said:
For the record, I do shoot with two neighbors with extensive firearms basements and tax stamps. Talking six figures easy each in their collections. One is an excellent three gunner. I'll be at an event of where there will be near 100 shooters, and I'll maybe be one of the dozen that didn't vote Hillary. Some of these guys worked in the Obama White House. I'd bet you well over half there would not be in favor of conceal carry, and find laws limiting it very good. I'll bet none of them have heard of MDS.

There are plenty of folks who collect and use firearms that don't concern themselves with new gun laws, and absolutely fine with may issue. If I were to mention "1302" or "Red Flag Law", they'd say "what is that." I went shooting with three other "Marylanders" couple days ago, we traveled to one WV acreage. Two were not familiar with Maryland's magazine law. One had a new Daniels Defense MK12. I gifted a new magazine in WV to one shooter and explained things, and of course that was an eye opener to them. Those three Saturday were pro 2A and Constitutional carry etc. My point is don't be so surprised at the post being railed against, because you are fooling yourself that a lot of gun owners don't agree with those sentiments. So right out of the box, instead of making civil points countering his position, he's labeled a troll (maybe he is) anti, and then sure some ad hominem. Carry on..

Schipperke said:
Point proven..

Not really. I called them ignorant not as a pejorative but due to your description of their knowledge of MD law.

TexDefender · Apr 30, 2018

The great thing about this country is you should have a choice. If you desire a permit and you have the training, and have no criminal history then you should be allowed to carry. But remember with great power comes great responsibility. But I do think that there is some pointless issues with Concealed Carry. Manly the places one is allowed to carry. For example, terrorist domestic or otherwise, tend to hit places where you are not allowed to carry like train stations, public transportation, schools, in fact most places where large groups of individuals tend to gather. For me, I hate it. I think times are changing and it is not for the better. When groups of armed individuals will break into your house in board daylight to rob and kill you. It's not time to restrict firearms. When a suspect will charge the witness stand or the judge during their trial to do them harm. It's not time to restrict firearms. When individuals will steal your car at gun point. Then it's not time to restrict guns. When individuals protest and become violent, then it is no time to restrict firearms. I could go on, but I think my point has been made.

RepublicOfFranklin · Apr 30, 2018

Occam said:
Nah, it's part of the trolling. He specifically mentions his "breaking point" in order to provoke others here into saying something on the record about their willingness to shoot cops. Don't fall for his juvenile Trolling 101 tactics.

Hear hear

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rbird7282 · Apr 30, 2018

eruby said:
"Oh reason not the need. Our basest beggars Are in the poorest thing superfluous."

Last time I asked you to post and introduction and establish your bona fides, you told me to go f&ck myself, and you got a one week ban. (link below)

https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=5151071&postcount=29

I am asking again, your statement of "i am a Maryland state gun collector, a member of the NRA, and a combat vet", notwithstanding.

You do nothing to establish yourself as a true 2A advocate, and everything to establish yourself as a troll who wants to undermine any of our good efforts.

'On a bluff. On a bluff. There lived three billy goats gruff .......'

Mic drop. Thread over.

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welder516 · Apr 30, 2018

Occam said:
Nah, it's part of the trolling. He specifically mentions his "breaking point" in order to provoke others here into saying something on the record about their willingness to shoot cops. Don't fall for his juvenile Trolling 101 tactics.

I respect the police and would help an officer in trouble even the ones that deny my rights .
Yes that may sound sick or even strange , but i could not turn my back on them . They are wrong that we all know , but they are not smart enough to realize it .

We all have natural rights , God given rights , and human rights . But if people are willing to give up their rights i am okay with that .
Personal choice

I want my rights all of them , and will fight for them in any legal means .

rbird7282 · Apr 30, 2018

sports89man7 said:
i just don't see the point of going through all that crap just for a stupid permit. my permit expires in a month. do i care? not really. the fact of the matter is that the system always wins. you'll end up like patriot picket getting arrested outside the state capital over something stupid and not even worth getting arrested over... then you gotta go to court, you gotta face a judge, then you gotta pay a fine or serve jail time, then you have to deal with trying to get your charges expunged off your record because now you have an arrest on your record and its a public record. now no one will hire you because you have an arrest on your record and then you have to explain to your employer on why you got arrested.... you can avoid all that crap by just following the law. i guess testimony isn't enough with people. i tell people they can do what they want, but ill just sit there and watch people get their requests denied over and over again and laugh at them. watching the testimony and some of the excuses that were made was hilarious. Maryland is a may issue state, yeah it sucks, but you better learn to love it. just remember there are 49 other states you can move to if you don't like it.

The Patriot Picket didn't get arrested over something stupid, ITS CALLED THE FIRST AMENDMENT. BTW, newsflash to you, but the Patriot Picket did follow the law and got arrested ILLEGALLY.
While you currently live in MD, perhaps you should consider moving to NJ or CA since you have no problem with the government telling what and when you can exercise your Rights. Those states would be perfect for you since you don't seem to give a damn about The Constitution.

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CharlieFoxtrot · May 1, 2018

I’ll post this now since the law is passed and enacted. The minuses have been discussed. I see three pluses in the new law:
- State Government 10-206.1 requires that an individual who is not admitted to the bar cannot “practice law” before the Office of Administrative Hearings. No more MSP making legal arguments. If they want to do that they will have to have an assistant AG represent them before the OAH. A good attorney should object any time an MSP witness tries to make a legal argument. They persist with this then file a complaint against the trooper for unauthorized practice of law.
- Discovery: COMAR 28.02.01.13 gives each side the right to request discovery. We can request for inspection or copying , any file, memorandum, correspondence, document, object, or tangible item, including electronically stored information, that is relevant to the subject matter of the case. So basically we ask for the whole file from them. That will be interesting to see, especially any internal memorandum. A good attorney will ask for all legal standards and opinions they relied on to reach their decision.
- Venue: This is could be a good one (however full disclosure I am not 100% sure on this- the law is unclear). New law doesn’t specify venue – that is the place where the hearing takes place. That means you can ask to have it in your county of residence since MSP is a state agency. No more schlepping to Crownsville all the time. If you live in Garrett County then MSP and the AG are coming out there. These hearings are held five days a week all over the state so the potential demands on the MSP licensing unit could be great. New law says hearing has to be held within 60 days of the date of appeal to OAH so there are deadlines that must be followed. OAH will follow deadlines.

fidelity · May 1, 2018

Thanks for the above addition.

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LongTom · May 1, 2018

sports89man7 said:
i just think the whole thing is pointless to be honest. i don't see the point of why you need to carry a gun with you everywhere you go.

I wasn't aware that mugger and rapist permits were only good for certain places on odd days of the week, did you? I'll have to tell my wife.

Fun fact: Did you know that you only need your kitchen fire extinguisher on Tuesdays? :innocent0

"The Democrats have assured us this grade school is safe from armed gunman. We put a No Guns sticker prominently on the door, sir."

The last thing the Southerland Springs Congregation Member said to her Husband: "You don't need your gun. After all, we're only going to church."

LongTom · May 1, 2018

That post was half humorous, but now here's some actual truth, sports89man7.

My best friend was in a random parking lot of a nice clean shopping center, on a nice, bright, shiny day, in an area with little to no crime, when a random crackhead just decided to grab his wife and put a rusty kitchen steak knife to her throat. If he would have thought like you, she's have been dead, but instead, he got a hole in his chest.

wabbit · May 1, 2018

Wow, this thread went down hill fast. It's obvious the Bloomberg-Brady gun control trolls are here, and we'll expect they'll poison any thread in the future.

To the gun control trolls and the AG monitors, why do you try to hide behind a facade of being a 2nd A. supporter here? What you say makes your agenda obvious, so why not just tell us you're from the gun control crowd and put forth your talking points.

dblas · May 6, 2018

So, I just had a thought...Can one or more of the legal eagles help me out here.

As with the current process where the next next appeal is to the Circuit Court, we now have to appeal to an ALJ.

But, we don't bring a lawsuit against MSP but rather the HPRB, so MSP won't be there unless they are requested to do so as a witness for either the applicant or the HPRB, corect?

MSP woould be bringing a lawsuit against the HPRB and not the applicant, so the applicant won't need to be there unless requested by either the HPRB or MSP, correct?

Since the ALJ normally sides with the administrative agency that made the decision (in this case the HPRB) how would that work if they were sued by another administrative agency (MSP)?

HPRB still in effect?

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