Laser advice?

EagleWon · Mar 1, 2012

Hello all,

I intend to buy a Sig P220 for use as a bedside gun and had some questions about adding a laser.

This is the first pistol I will have owned. Is putting a laser on it a good idea, or not? It seems like in close quarters, such as in the house, esp at night, it would help in quick target acquisiton.

Cost aside, are there downsides to this?

And what aer the pros/cons to rail laser vs guide rod laser, spescially if I don't plan on holstering it much?

peace · Mar 1, 2012

If you are looking for a home defense rail mount on a pistol I would get a strobe effect flashlight. Google a few videos of it in action. It can definitely disorient and deter.

WeaponsCollector · Mar 1, 2012

Another option would be Crimson Trace Laser Grips.
I think lasers are all about personal preference.
They do make target shooting more interesting IMO.
A flashlight is a must for home defense situations at night.
Too many accidental shootings have happened when the shooter thinks their relative is an intruder and shoots without properly identifying the target.

hvymax · Mar 1, 2012

A laser is ok but for HD I think a weaponlight would give you enough of a center for close range work. Maybe a crimson trace would be good as well.

ThawMyTongue · Mar 1, 2012

Lasers are great for training. With a laser mounted you can easily see a flinch or pulling/pushing while dry firing. For defensive purposes, a laser often makes people neglect training and leave them high and dry if the laser ever malfunctions. I would spend the equivalent cost if a laser on ammo and train with it.

I also am not a fan of handgun mounted lights as you need to point a loaded weapon at anything you need to illuminate.

Having said all that, I know a lot of people have and use lasers and love them. This is just my opinion.

ProShooter · Mar 1, 2012

Well this ought to be good for at least a dozen pages of back and forth arguing....

With that said, let me get my two pennies in before the lock.....

I do not recommend lasers or flashlights on a defensive handgun. Too many negatives in my opinion.

Let the flaming begin.....

EagleWon · Mar 1, 2012

Thanks all for the advice.

This definitely gives me something to go on, some more things to consider and research.

@Thaw, I will definitely be training with it until it calluses my palms.

@Pro, can you give me some reasons/justifications to your preferences?

erwos · Mar 1, 2012

I have a TLR-2 on my P226 DAK, and I intend to put a TLR-4 on my other HD gun. I like having the option of laser usage, but given that usual use of an HD handgun would be "hunker down, point gun at bedroom door, and wait for cops to show", tritium sights fine. So, I've got a laser, but it's not necessarily going to be turned on.

Obviously, lasers are more useful when you're talking about shooting around cover, that sort of thing. But that's not terribly likely in an HD situation.

There is a fundamental assumption that lasers are faster for target acquisition, and I tend to not agree with this from my own use.

Mooseman · Mar 1, 2012

If you decide to go with a laser, I really like my Crimson Trace.

tech24 · Mar 1, 2012

I'd also like to know the reasoning behind proshooters comments as I have always been curious if a lazer is a good idea for HD. I choose to have nothing mostly because I have never been in a HD situation and I don't know if I'd remember or even be thinking clearly enough to turn things on.

ProShooter · Mar 1, 2012

Ok, here goes...

Lasers run on batteries - think "that old flashlight in the kitchen drawer when the power goes out". Dead. Think how many times you heard on the news that someone didn't have a working smoke detector in their home. Batteries die, corrode, people forget to change the batteries, etc. Maybe you'll check the batteries regularly.....maybe not.

Lasers while very effective in low light conditions, are very hard to see during the day or in bright sunlight. You don't need a 12 hour gun, you need a 24 hour gun.

Lasers illuminate your position. 'nuff said.

Lasers were originally designed for training - to teach people how to align their iron sights, not to replace them. People who practice solely with the laser (and there's alot of people like this), if the laser is not there one day and you haven't mastered your gun's iron sights, you're up shit's creek. I'm sure someone will be along to say that the Seals, SWAT, mall ninjas et al all use lasers. When the average joe who carries a defensive firearm can do what a Seal does with a handgun, attach as many lasers as you want....maybe add a disco ball.

That's my .02...your mileage may vary.

tech24 · Mar 1, 2012

I'm sold, very valid points and makes sense to me!

wlc · Mar 1, 2012

IMO - shooters should always train and learn to shoot well with iron sites.
But I still like lasers for faster target acquisition and quicker repeat shots for the avg. shooter.
If the battery fails you can always resort back to the irons as long as you have the training.

ProShooter · Mar 1, 2012

wlc said:
If the battery fails you can always resort back to the irons as long as you have the training.

True, but therein lies the problem.....

Let's examine something....Joe Gunowner.

Joe buys a handgun with a laser, and gets his carry permit with the "training" he received from the hunter safety class he took at age 14. In the first week or so of owning his gun, Joe goes to the range to test out that new gun and laser. He carries his gun in a hard side case, since the range doesn't allow holster draw. Joe buys one box of 50 rounds, and a zombie target, or Osama Bin Laden, or the scruffy 1970's thug with the porn star mustache holding a knife to a woman's throat.

Joe plops his case down on the counter in his little shooting booth. He loads his mag from the one, 50 round box that he bought (100 rounds would be a rarity). He loads his gun, aims the laser at the target and fires where the dancing red dot goes, using a standard two handed, strong side grip. He rinses, and repeats. After 50 rounds, Joe proclaims himself proficient and that the laser is the greatest thing since Netflix in your mailbox. He tells the shooter in the next booth "this laser is great! I don't even have to aim!!" Joe heads towards home where he runs into his next door neighbor and shows off this really super cool laser gun combo.

The next day, Joe goes out, and carries his gun in a $10 nylon holster that he bought at the gun show. Maybe he carries 2-3 times a week at first, then once a week, then on occassion when he's going to "that part of town". Joe does take the gun out of the gun safe once in a while, not to practice with, but to use the laser to screw with the cat.....

Joe never practices drawing from the holster.
Joe never shoots more than 50 rounds in one outing to the range.
Joe never uses his iron sights to truly know where his gun is aimed.
Joe has no idea how to move and shoot, or clear malfunctions, or shoot left handed using cover, or blah, blah, blah....

Train like you mean it. Train, like that gun is going to save your life one day....it just may.

Don't be Joe.

davsco · Mar 1, 2012

jeez Pro, if one buys a lazer they're doomed to be Joe Gunowner? that's more than a little over the top.

i actually just bought a viridian light/lazer combo for one of my HD guns. i view it as redundancy. in daylight, it is nothing but a paperweight at the end of the gun. but in the dark, it gives me a pretty good flashlight, but letting both my hands firmly control the gun. and if for some reason i cannot get a good sight picture thru the "normal" sights, the lazer gives me another option to take out a bad guy.

markc · Mar 1, 2012

I think Pro's point is that if you need to ask if you need a laser, you probably don't or it's going to develop into a bad habit or form. The professionals who use lasers usually have all the fundamentals down and train enough so that it's not an issue.

I don't know.

tech24 · Mar 1, 2012

Lasers work during the day inside the house....just sayin

obsolete · Mar 1, 2012

My shift had CTC lasers on our duty pistols as a test project several years ago. The design has gotten better over time and I have them on most of my pistols. Some things I noticed in using them......bad guys that are not highly motivated usually reconsider when lit up and sometimes begin to cry.....they are excellent when firing through the view port in a ballistic shield....they make weak hand shooting and hip shooting infinitely more accurate.....and they promote dry firing. On the negative side...they are a general distraction when target shooting.....they embarass poor shooters on the line (looks like a Parkinson's convention)......and more often than not in low light simunitions scenarios, they act as a bullet magnet with a suprisingly high number of hits in the gun hand by opponents (which is better than a head shot, but not by a lot.) There were enough positives to spend my own money, but nothing is perfect.

EagleWon · Mar 1, 2012

@ pro that makes perfect tactical sense to me. I am already looking at handgun courses. I intend to be proficient with my gun. Regardless, it sounds like a laser is a pointless investment, this is why I asked these questions. Now as for a light, the strobe function or strobe tactic sounds good in theory, and I see many of you swear by it, but a light seems like a sure fire way to declare your position.... On one hand it makes sense so you can ID potential targets at night... On the other, it seems to scream "Here I am! Shoot over here!" to a potentially armed intruder. Anyone want to debate that one?

ProShooter · Mar 1, 2012

EagleWon said:
Now as for a light, the strobe function or strobe tactic sounds good in theory, and I see many of you swear by it, but a light seems like a sure fire way to declare your position.... On one hand it makes sense so you can ID potential targets at night... On the other, it seems to scream "Here I am! Shoot over here!" to a potentially armed intruder. Anyone want to debate that one?

Have a flashlight, but don't attach it to the gun. Learn one of the umpteen flashlight holds that works best for you. Learn how to step offline when you illuminate something, the same way you'd step offline when drawing.

Laser advice?

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