Windham R16M4 only chambered in 7.62x39 legal?

Shooter79 · Apr 19, 2017

Was debating adding another Windham to my collection, and in checking the MD roster noticed they have the R16M4 on the not banned List but only saw the 7.62x39 listed. Does this mean I can't get the same model chambered for 223?

Probably a dumb question, just confused about these MD laws..

Hit and Run · Apr 19, 2017

Shooter79 said:
Was debating adding another Windham to my collection, and in checking the MD roster noticed they have the R16M4 on the not banned List but only saw the 7.62x39 listed. Does this mean I can't get the same model chambered for 223?

Probably a dumb question, just confused about these MD laws..

The HBC version is legal in 223. It's their HBAR advertised and stamped on barrel.

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Shooter79 · Apr 19, 2017

Hit and Run said:
The HBC version is legal in 223. It's their HBAR advertised and stamped on barrel.

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Not on the model I was looking at.. At least not in the description..

Hit and Run · Apr 19, 2017

https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/hbc/

Legal in MD. Has HBAR. Have sold them. Web site says Heavy Barrel Profile . Stamped HBAR.

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j_h_smith · Apr 19, 2017

Shooter79 said:
Not on the model I was looking at.. At least not in the description..

If it's not advertised or stamped on the rifle, then it's not legal to own. That seems to be the prevailing thought at least.

Hit and Run · Apr 19, 2017

Will post photo of an upper this afternoon as I have one....

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Hit and Run · Apr 19, 2017

So, HBAR not stamped anymore on barrel. Rechecked catalog and HBC is HBAR per Windham and HBC stands for Heavy Barreled Carbine.

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ericoak · Apr 22, 2017

j_h_smith said:
If it's not advertised or stamped on the rifle, then it's not legal to own. That seems to be the prevailing thought at least.

Disagree, that isn't mentioned anywhere in the law. If two barrels have the same profile, one can't be HBAR and the other one is HBAR.

j_h_smith · Apr 22, 2017

j_h_smith said:
If it's not advertised or stamped on the rifle, then it's not legal to own. That seems to be the prevailing thought at least.

ericoak said:
Disagree, that isn't mentioned anywhere in the law. If two barrels have the same profile, one can't be HBAR and the other one is HBAR.

What's difficult to understand? If it's advertised as an HBAR or is designated as an HBAR by a stamping on the firearm, then it's okay.

Go ahead and order something that doesn't meet that criteria and see if your ffl will transfer it to you.

Good Luck!

Doobie · Apr 22, 2017

And here we go again. I agree with your rationale about 2 barrels being the same dimensions but one not legal because it isn't marked or marketed, but Maryland doesn't. There has to be something somewhere in the law or else we'd still be able to buy ARs with any barrel profile. I know there was reply from MSP gun licensing posted awhile back regarding the whole HBAR fiasco and what constitutes HBAR and what doesn't. I'm pretty sure it stated that it must either be marked or marketed as HBAR. Dimensions doesn't mean a damn thing. Do I agree with their insanity? NO. But if that's what they say, that's what it is unless someone beats them in court or proves otherwise. How many dealers in MD will sell an AR15 RIFLE without the barrel being marked HBAR or marketed as such? None that I know of.,

Hit and Run · Apr 22, 2017

For the record, the Windham HBC (Heavy Barreled Carbine) is being sold by dealers in MD. It is an Heavy Barreled rifle. HBAR is not stamped on rifle. Windham Weaponry sells it as legal in MD and advertizes it as Heavy Barrel Carbine.

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Doobie · Apr 22, 2017

Hit and Run said:
For the record, the Windham HBC (Heavy Barreled Carbine) is being sold by dealers in MD. It is an Heavy Barreled rifle. HBAR is not stamped on rifle. Windham Weaponry sells it as legal in MD and advertizes it as Heavy Barrel Carbine.

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Correct. HBAR=Heavy Barrel and I'm sure you already knew that. It's being advertised as a HEAVY BARREL so it's ok in the eyes of MSP licensing division/MD's BS law. If they didn't advertise it as heavy barrel, it wouldn't matter if the barrel was 5" in diameter, it would be a no go in MD according to the overlords and their insane BS

Hit and Run · Apr 22, 2017

Doobie said:
Correct. But it's being advertised as a HEAVY BARREL so it's ok in the eyes of MSP. If they didn't advertise it as heavy barrel, it wouldn't matter if the barrel was 5" in diameter, it would be a no go in MD according to the overlords and their insane BS

Their advertising is Heavy Barrel Profile to be specific with HBC abbreviation for Heavy Barrel Carbine.

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ericoak · Apr 22, 2017

j_h_smith said:
What's difficult to understand? If it's advertised as an HBAR or is designated as an HBAR by a stamping on the firearm, then it's okay.

Go ahead and order something that doesn't meet that criteria and see if your ffl will transfer it to you.

Good Luck!

MSP has no clue what they are talking about. All I'm going to say on the matter.

j_h_smith · Apr 22, 2017

ericoak said:
MSP has no clue what they are talking about. All I'm going to say on the matter.

I see you're in Georgia. How does this affect you? Giving bad advise is not cool, but when you have no dog in the fight, it's even worse.

ericoak · Apr 22, 2017

j_h_smith said:
I see you're in Georgia. How does this affect you? Giving bad advise is not cool, but when you have no dog in the fight, it's even worse.

So if I profile my own barrel I can shape it any way I want as the manufacturer and call it HBAR or stamp it with HBAR and it is legal according to you?

This message was written in the state of MD.

j_h_smith · Apr 22, 2017

ericoak said:
So if I profile my own barrel I can shape it any way I want as the manufacturer and call it HBAR or stamp it with HBAR and it is legal according to you?

This message was written in the state of MD.

Living in Georgia, you don't have to worry about our issues in Maryland.

Hit and Run · Apr 22, 2017

ericoak said:
So if I profile my own barrel I can shape it any way I want as the manufacturer and call it HBAR or stamp it with HBAR and it is legal according to you?

This message was written in the state of MD.

Probably as stupid as that seems but then again I have HBAR that is under 7pds and will hold it accuracy far longer under constant fire than a military profile barrel due to heat dissipation traits of HBAR. The less accurate gun is illegal while the more accurate gun is cash and carry with virtually same weight....go figure.

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Doobie · Apr 22, 2017

ericoak said:
So if I profile my own barrel I can shape it any way I want as the manufacturer and call it HBAR or stamp it with HBAR and it is legal according to you?
QUOTE]
Info from Mopar92 on a question I posted last year:
"For some real barrel fun and MD stupidity. The Colt SOCOM rifle and upper are both marketed as HBAR so MD legal. The BCM SOCOM rifle and upper are marketed as a midweight so NOT MD legal. Same exact barrel profile. Same exact gun. 1 MD legal, 1 not because MSP LD are fvcktarded."
Search is your friend. And it seems if I recall correctly in those searches you had posted questions and comments regarding HBARs and spoke of being too pretty to be in prison lol. Now you're the subject matter expert on HBARs. I don't think there's one person here who likes or agrees with ANY part of FSA2013, but many have contacted MSP gun division, the AG, and attorneys to decipher what was or wasn't legal. Where did your info come from? If you truly believe that AR15 rifle barrels don't need to be marked or marketed as HBAR/heavy barrel and are a current resident of communist MD, then buy an AR15 rifle with a govt or M4 profile Barrel in MD from a dealer. Can't? Build one in MD on a post 2013 lower and then send pics to MSP licensing division and the AG and tell them they don't have a clue. You'll either be MD's first victim of the HBAR rule that I know of or you'll prove yourself right and everyone here wrong and we'll be grateful.
Do I think MSP is lurking in the bushes waiting for someone to put a non HBAR barrel on a post 2013 lower? No. Am I going to try it and find out? Negative

inkd · Apr 22, 2017

ericoak said:
So if I profile my own barrel I can shape it any way I want as the manufacturer and call it HBAR or stamp it with HBAR and it is legal according to you?

This message was written in the state of MD.

Yes. I have 3 barrels I made from blanks that had no markings on them whatsoever.

After I completed them I had the barrels marked with the barrel manufacturer, caliber, twist rate and HBAR. They are completely legal in Maryland.

I can also copy and paste the entire email chain between me and a Maryland State Trooper where he confirms that a barrel need only be stamped or advertised as a heavy barrel to be legal in Maryland and that contour, profile or weight have nothing to do with it.

Windham R16M4 only chambered in 7.62x39 legal?

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