300 BLKOUT barrels... preferences??

Alright, I'm putting together a 10.5" SBR. Form1 already in-hand.
Midaway has AR-Stoner 10.5" barrels on backorder for just under $200. I already put my order in for one when they come back in stock. Now I see that they actually have some Noveske 10.2" barrels with gas block/tube installed for about $350.

Question 1: Any first hand knowledge/reviews with either of these barrels?
Question 2: Is the Noveske worth the $150 more?
Question 3: Does anybody have experience getting their Form 1 ammended? I'm guessing that's the next step if I go with the Noveske - as its 10.2" instead of 10.5" like the From 1 states.

I'm getting my 16" (300BLK) Noveske in tomorrow. 'Buy once, Cry once'

Considering you don't hear anything bad about Noveske (aside from price), that's got to say something for itself.

Have no idea about your Form 1, I'm still 'stampless' at the moment.

Noveske is the ONLY .300 Barrels I have NOT seen cycling issues with. Gas System Length, Barrel Length, Rifling Twist, and Gas Port Size is CRITICAL for the various ways to shoot this gun. Noveske does it right out of the gate. I have seen Factory AAC uppers using REMINGTON ammo have cycling issues.

YES, before someone jumps in and says 'My uber budget .300BLK runs fine". Ill say "Are you sure about that?". Is it overgassed with a suppressor attached? Does is stabilize both 200+ grain and 150- grain projectiles with acceptable results, be sure because an unstable round will DESTROY a suppressor quite fast. Are your feed ramps right? Accurate with all types of projectiles?

Some MFGs ports are cut small to only cycle when a suppressor is attached. If you remove the suppressor it may not cycle with supersonic or subsonic ammo. Some MFGs go large and that GROSSLY overgasses the gun. This is not good unless you want to end up with a buffer staked into your shoulder when the buffer tube gives out from being slammed into.

Remember with a short barrel the dwell time is not great, Noveske uses Pistol Gas Systems to help with Dwell Time.

Optimally you should have a Noveske Barrel and then have a buffer/spring setup for each way you shoot, and YES it can make a difference.

Gere is the highest operating pressure to lowest operating pressure.

1- Suppressed/Supersonic Ammo (Use the heaviest buffer and recoil spring the gun will lock a bolt back with)

2- Unsuppressed/Supersonic Ammo (Use the heaviest buffer and recoil spring the gun will lock a bolt back with)

3- Suppressed/Subsonic Ammo (Use the heaviest buffer and recoil spring the gun will lock a bolt back with)

4- Unsupressed/Subsonic Ammo (Use the heaviest buffer and recoil spring the gun will lock a bolt back with)


Sometimes you can get by with just 2 buffers but in my experience the best way to shoot all 4 scenarios is to have 4 buffer/spring combos.

Heavy Buffers.com is who will make a buffer for you if commercial options are still too light. He makes great stuff. His buffers cna be tuned as well to help you decide what other lighter buffers are needed for al suppressed and ammo scenarios.



As far as your Form 1/4 just send BATFE a letter of intent. No changes are needed, just tell them you plan to use a different barrel length as you PERMANENT barrel length. emember this changes you OAL weapon length to so be sure to change that too. Length is measured with the stock OPEN fully.

Funny you should mention those two barrels… here’s my story:

Midway USA lost my business forever over the AR Stoner 10.5” 300BLK barrel. I ordered one from them a couple months ago. I knew it was likely not the greatest barrel in the world, but for the great price and considering that I would likely never shoot the gun past 300 yards, it seemed hard to beat (in retrospect, it was a stupid way to think). Midway USA then proceeded to change the “in stock” by a couple weeks… OK, I thought, I can wait. Then they did it again, then again, then again. After the fourth time, I called and they assured me that they really meant the date this time. Then they changed it again. Well, to make a long story short after about 12-15 date changes, two calls, three online chat sessions, and a half dozen emails containing demonstrable and obvious lies, I decided that Midway USA did not want my business and canceled my order. It’s a shame since I had always been impressed with Midway USA’s fast shipping, so they were my “go to” parts supplier for years and I spent thousands of dollars with them. Brownell’s got my last two orders.

I ordered the Noveske 10.2” barrel as the replacement from a different supplier. So far, I have only shot it once as a pistol (last weekend) and I’m still waiting for the SBR lower stamp so I can’t give much of an evaluation now. But so far so good. The price difference isn’t as high as it seems. Consider that the Noveske comes with a nice gas block (about $45), a gas tube ($15) and is pre-drilled (approx. $50 job, if you have it done), and the price difference is not very big and you are getting a far nicer part. If I were in your shoes, I’d go Noveske. In retrospect, I really should have done that to start with.

And here she is:

I went with the 10" noveske and alpha rail myself.

Your build looks a lot like mine will- Whose upper receiver and bolt?

I'm planning on sending mine to chad for final assembly and his patented tuning once the tax stamp comes in.

Drmsparks said:

I went with the 10" noveske and alpha rail myself.

Your build looks a lot like mine will- Whose upper receiver and bolt?

I'm planning on sending mine to chad for final assembly and his patented tuning once the tax stamp comes in.

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The upper is LAR Grizzly's OPS-4 side charger. Since this rifle will pretty much spend its life with a can on the end (and because I hate getting gas in my face), the elimination of the charging handle and the lack of left side openings made it appear to be a decent option. I also wanted to try something different. Of course, the down side is the host of issues that arise from using a non-standard part. Time will tell if this was a good idea.

The bolt carrier group (chromed bolt carrier and phosphated bolt) comes with the upper. The carrier is a proprietary part that will not work in a standard upper (wider in the front I think and no forward assist serrations), but the bolt is standard.

If you use the MDS discount, you can get it from JBO for $275.

HT4 said:

The upper is LAR Grizzly's OPS-4 side charger. Since this rifle will pretty much spend its life with a can on the end (and because I hate getting gas in my face), the elimination of the charging handle and the lack of left side openings made it appear to be a decent option. I also wanted to try something different. Of course, the down side is the host of issues that arise from using a non-standard part. Time will tell if this was a good idea.

The bolt carrier group (chromed bolt carrier and phosphated bolt) comes with the upper. The carrier is a proprietary part that will not work in a standard upper (wider in the front I think and no forward assist serrations), but the bolt is standard.

If you use the MDS discount, you can get it from JBO for $275.

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Pretty slick. I like it. Do you have a picture of the whole pistol assembled?

BenL said:

Pretty slick. I like it. Do you have a picture of the whole pistol assembled?

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Thanks... and no pictures assembled. I already put the pistol buffer tube back on the 9mm pistol that I took it from to test this out, so no taking one now. There will be plenty of pics when my stamp comes through. Paperwork got sent in the beginning of April, so it should not be long now.

HT4 Nice upper. After my post in the IP section that you responded to, I finally went to buy the upper and....BAM!! out of stock. Snooze you lose!! You guys are saying everything I was thinking, it's just nice to hear the same sentiments from others to calm the fears. What length is that hand rail? I am doing the same setup (if I ever get the upper), but I want the hand guard to come just up to the flash holes in the YHM QD. That way when I screww on the can is got that integral look, and it'll probably live with the can on it 90% of the time.
I put my foot in the door w/ midway for the Stoner barrell yesterday, looks like I need to cancel that and order the Noveske before that goes on backorder!!
Where'd you get your Noveske barrell from? Midway has them for 346.99 Dealer price in stock right now. The Chantilly show is coming up, but I have not been impressed with price or availability the last couple of shows.

Chad,
Have you ever dealt with ammedning a Form 1? I had been looking around and decided on 10.5", but the Noveske is 10.2" Something to be worried about??

StillServing said:

HT4 Nice upper. After my post in the IP section that you responded to, I finally went to buy the upper and....BAM!! out of stock. Snooze you lose!! You guys are saying everything I was thinking, it's just nice to hear the same sentiments from others to calm the fears. What length is that hand rail? I am doing the same setup (if I ever get the upper), but I want the hand guard to come just up to the flash holes in the YHM QD. That way when I screww on the can is got that integral look, and it'll probably live with the can on it 90% of the time.
I put my foot in the door w/ midway for the Stoner barrell yesterday, looks like I need to cancel that and order the Noveske before that goes on backorder!!

Chad,
Have you ever dealt with ammedning a Form 1? I had been loking around and decided on 10.5", but the Noveske is 10.2" Something to be worried about??

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Thanks. The rail is 9".

Regarding getting the "integral look": I thought the same thing when I started planning my build, but it is harder to do in practice than you may think. Consider the OD of the can and the ID of the rail (its hard to find many combinations that will fit at all)... then consider that you want some clearance to make sure you don't scratch your can and/or burn your fingers... then consider that you can't use AAC QD cans because of the mount... then consider that YHM SS Phantom has a larger diameter than pretty much every other can... You are left with the following as your best option: YHM Ti QD with a Spikes (or Seekins) B.A.R. (Big A$$ Rail). That really didn't appeal to me, so I abandoned the plan. If you limited yourself to subsonic loads, it would be much easier to do using a stout 9mm can that has a smaller OD (but you definately could not use supersonic 300BLK loads).

I am also building a 5" 9mm AR-15 SBR right now that will have the can well under the handguard for the "integral look"... but I'm still waiting on the can and SBR stamps.

StillServing - Rainier Arms has the Noveske's in stock, it's where I got mine. As of Friday they had 46 of the 16" and less than 30 of the 10" on the shelf.

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2399

HT4,
Those are the exact two handguards I was looking at, and I already have a YHM SS Phantom that I'll be using on it. As far as fingers and such, I only want it to come up to about where the flash holse are on the QD Adapter, when the cans off. I have to wait till I get the barrell installed on the upper and then I can take measurements and see what feasiblt at that time.

StillServing said:

HT4 Nice upper. After my post in the IP section that you responded to, I finally went to buy the upper and....BAM!! out of stock. Snooze you lose!! You guys are saying everything I was thinking, it's just nice to hear the same sentiments from others to calm the fears. What length is that hand rail? I am doing the same setup (if I ever get the upper), but I want the hand guard to come just up to the flash holes in the YHM QD. That way when I screww on the can is got that integral look, and it'll probably live with the can on it 90% of the time.
I put my foot in the door w/ midway for the Stoner barrell yesterday, looks like I need to cancel that and order the Noveske before that goes on backorder!!
Where'd you get your Noveske barrell from? Midway has them for 346.99 Dealer price in stock right now. The Chantilly show is coming up, but I have not been impressed with price or availability the last couple of shows.

Chad,
Have you ever dealt with ammedning a Form 1? I had been looking around and decided on 10.5", but the Noveske is 10.2" Something to be worried about??

Click to expand...

StillServing said:

HT4,
Those are the exact two handguards I was looking at, and I already have a YHM SS Phantom that I'll be using on it. As far as fingers and such, I only want it to come up to about where the flash holse are on the QD Adapter, when the cans off. I have to wait till I get the barrell installed on the upper and then I can take measurements and see what feasiblt at that time.

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YHM makes a 9.75 and a 12.5 Lightweight FF Rail. If you have a 10.5" Barrel the 9.75" Rail wont cover th eback of the YHM Suppressor mount to make it look "Seamless". Here is what I do for these cases, I take a YHM LW FF 12.5" Rail and I chop the first 1.75" off in a lathe and refinish the face. You cant do this with the Diamond YHM, only the LW Rail.

There isnt a real "Ammendment" to a Form 1/4 to my knowledge. You just write a letter of intent to the NFA Examiner (Keep One Copy for your Records). They will then send you a letter ecknowledging your intent to permanently change the configuration (Barrel Length and OAL), or you can do this if you plan on using different calibers or barrel lengths.

clandestine said:

There isnt a real "Ammendment" to a Form 1/4 to my knowledge. You just write a letter of intent to the NFA Examiner (Keep One Copy for your Records). They will then send you a letter ecknowledging your intent to permanently change the configuration (Barrel Length and OAL), or you can do this if you plan on using different calibers or barrel lengths.

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I literally, 5 minutes ago, got of the phone with one of the ATF NFA Specialists about this. I explained to her that I currently have an AR15 SBR registered in 9mm with a 5.5 inch barrel. I told her I wanted to use other uppers, in addition to the 9mm upper, of different calibers and barrel lengths on the same SBR lower. I asked if I needed to do anything prior to doing this, like mail a letter to them stating my intentions. She said I could just go ahead and do it. And that I didnt have to send in a letter to use multiple calibers on my SBR lower. She said the even though the caliber and barrel length are noted on the Form4, its the serial number that matters to them. She said I could go ahead and use any caliber and barrel length I wanted. And that it was up to me if I wanted to mail them a letter with the specifics of the other uppers.

I wish I could just get a solid answer on this subject. Everyone seems to get a different answer about this.

Flipz said:

I literally, 5 minutes ago, got of the phone with one of the ATF NFA Specialists about this. I explained to her that I currently have an AR15 SBR registered in 9mm with a 5.5 inch barrel. I told her I wanted to use other uppers, in addition to the 9mm upper, of different calibers and barrel lengths on the same SBR lower. I asked if I needed to do anything prior to doing this, like mail a letter to them stating my intentions. She said I could just go ahead and do it. And that I didnt have to send in a letter to use multiple calibers on my SBR lower. She said the even though the caliber and barrel length are noted on the Form4, its the serial number that matters to them. She said I could go ahead and use any caliber and barrel length I wanted. And that it was up to me if I wanted to mail them a letter with the specifics of the other uppers.

I wish I could just get a solid answer on this subject. Everyone seems to get a different answer about this.

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Permanent configuration is the sticking point for me and some BATFE Inspectors. Also BATFE Field Agents have different interpretations on this case. The way the Form 1/4 is worded and the way the gun is configured has to matter, if not then there shouldnt be boxes for that info.

For instance, if you have a 10.5" AR in 5.56 and that listed on the Form 1/4 then THAT is the permanent configuration. If you go to the range and slap on a 12" .300 BLK upper then technically, you havent changed the permanent configuartion, you simply put your 10.5" 5.56 upper back on and store it in that configuration.

Now if you leave the .300 BLK upper on it it can be construed as changing the permanent configuration. There should be a paperwork trail for this. Paperwork covers the OWNER, not BATFE.

Whats a better defense against an ill informed BATFE Agent? A letter with BATFE's acknowledgement or you quoting a phone call that you cant prove the content of?

clandestine said:

Whats a better defense against an ill informed BATFE Agent? A letter with BATFE's acknowledgement or you quoting a phone call that you cant prove the content of?

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I agree. I guess the safe bet is to send them a letter and keep their return letter with the approved Form1/4.

BradMacc82 said:

StillServing - Rainier Arms has the Noveske's in stock, it's where I got mine. As of Friday they had 46 of the 16" and less than 30 of the 10" on the shelf.

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2399

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FYI - That's where I got mine. The 10" on the website is actually the 10.2"... I think it is mislabled by RA. That's what I ordered, and I measured it.

HT4 said:

FYI - That's where I got mine. The 10" on the website is actually the 10.2"... I think it is mislabled by RA. That's what I ordered, and I measured it.

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Yeah, I'd noticed that as well.

But they have them in stock, so I can forgive a very slight typo.

As far as the Form goes, Chad had the answer I was looking for. I tried to slip by when I originally filed the paperwork. I put 300 blk as the caliber, I think I put 7-16" for BL and 28-37" for the OAL and go it kicked back, so I had to specify 10.5" I fihured wosrst case is They would make me correct it which they did. I do have multiple different calibers listed under the 4C block (i think that's the block #) anyway I wrote in "sdditional calibers 9mm/6.8mm/.450....." and listed a bunch of different calibers. The wording I was looking for was the letter of intent since the permanent or "default' length is going to be different than what was originally specified.

BradMacc82 said:

Yeah, I'd noticed that as well.

But they have them in stock, so I can forgive a very slight typo.

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NOT ANYMORE!!!! Damn I need to start snatching stuff as SOON as I see it. This is ridiculous!!!