Baltimore County Police Replace FNS-40 with Glock 17 Following Accidental Discharges

gtodave said:

I think you had to pull the trigger to take the gun down...at least a rather unreliable source within the department told me that. People would pull the trigger with one still in the chamber.

Click to expand...

Baltimore PD began conversion to Glock pistols in December of 1990. I was in the second class of converts from the S&W Mod 10 to the Glock Mod 17...

EVERY time a Glock pistol is field stripped the "unloading and make safe" system remains the same.
- Remove magazine
- Rack slide thrice
- Check chamber visually
- Look away
- Check chamber visually again
- Place finger into chamber to check and make sure NO round is in the chamber
- Pull slide rearward to release slide stop lever allowing slide to go forward into battery position
- Pull trigger to release trigger action bar from firing pin
- Move slide to the rear to remove tension from the slide lock
- Pull down on slide lock to release and allow the slide assembly to be moved forward and removed from the frame.


THOUSANDS of Officers have been trained in that method and have been carrying the Glock pistol for MILLIONS of hours on and off duty. Very RARELY have they experienced NDs due to the procedure for field stripping the Glock pistol.

And those times when it has happened... were ALWAYS the operator error factor.

The Baltimore County PD was experiencing malfunctions/NDs which were attributed to the pistol they were using...(FNS-40) in a sufficient number cases... that they did not care to continue with the liability.

IANAGS

I know that someone will be along to tell me how wrong I am... But, I personally do not know of any cases where the Glock pistol malfunctioned without some direct or indirect action by the person in possession of the pistol at the time.

RoadDawg said:

And those times when it has happened... were ALWAYS the operator error factor.

The Baltimore County PD was experiencing malfunctions/NDs which were attributed to the pistol they were using...(FNS-40) in a sufficient number cases... that they did not care to continue with the liability.

IANAGS

I know that someone will be along to tell me how wrong I am... But, I personally do not know of any cases where the Glock pistol malfunctioned without some direct or indirect action by the person in possession of the pistol at the time.

Click to expand...

You mean like how an operator was always behind an FNS pistol when it fired.

Postell said:

You mean like how an operator was always behind an FNS pistol when it fired.

Click to expand...

A few fired in holsters.

Then a soft blow by a hammer could set some off.

Then the triggers started to fall off.

Name Taken said:

They reported the ones they had were due to the holster design. They got a new holster.

It was discovered the gun could be put into a situation where tapping the back of firearm cause the gun to fire. Hence the current striker recall.

Click to expand...

Yeah I remember a AD from a LEO due to that holster. You can pretty much stick your finger in and pull the trigger.

Name Taken said:

A few fired in holsters.

Then a soft blow by a hammer could set some off.

Then the triggers started to fall off.

Click to expand...

This. It wasn’t negligence. They would just go bang. Then they started hammering them to see if they could make them go bang and yup, they would.

TheRealJimDavis said:

This. It wasn’t negligence. They would just go bang. Then they started hammering them to see if they could make them go bang and yup, they would.

Click to expand...

Absolutely correct...if the striker channel was dirty via brass shavings or mild powder fouling build up (compromising the effectiveness of the striker release), you didn't even need a hammer...a mild knock was all it would take.

RoadDawg said:

I know that someone will be along to tell me how wrong I am... But, I personally do not know of any cases where the Glock pistol malfunctioned without some direct or indirect action by the person in possession of the pistol at the time.

Click to expand...

Without getting into too many details, my department quickly abandoned the G22 because of a true AD. A sergeant, with his gun in his holster, bumped against a desk at the academy, causing his G22 to accidentally discharge. Inspection of the gun revealed some broken parts (firing pin safety and something else, maybe broken guide rail). These broken items made a perfect storm, allowing the firing pin to drop if it got bumped.

All our G22's were inspected and we found that multiple guns had similar broken parts. They were able to safely replicate the issue in the range.

Contacted Glock, they swapped out our 12 year old G22's for brand new 9mm pistols. Didn't cost us anything.

Apparently the pressure within the .40 is substantially higher than the 9mm. The .40 Glock can't sustain those higher pressures long term.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

spoon059 said:

Without getting into too many details, my department quickly abandoned the G22 because of a true AD. A sergeant, with his gun in his holster, bumped against a desk at the academy, causing his G22 to accidentally discharge. Inspection of the gun revealed some broken parts (firing pin safety and something else, maybe broken guide rail). These broken items made a perfect storm, allowing the firing pin to drop if it got bumped.

All our G22's were inspected and we found that multiple guns had similar broken parts. They were able to safely replicate the issue in the range.

Contacted Glock, they swapped out our 12 year old G22's for brand new 9mm pistols. Didn't cost us anything.

Apparently the pressure within the .40 is substantially higher than the 9mm. The .40 Glock can't sustain those higher pressures long term.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I'm not aware of any gun manufacture who will put a "life span" on a duty gun however it is believed 10 years is about it. And somewhere in there the gun should have a complete overhaul.

This seems like improper maintenance and upkeep and poor inspections more so than a defect in the firearm.

And another Department removes the FNS:

https://www.azmirror.com/2019/04/22...89c1a99e4f05032852248e6b65960625#comment-2339

Name Taken said:

spoon059 said:

Without getting into too many details, my department quickly abandoned the G22 because of a true AD. A sergeant, with his gun in his holster, bumped against a desk at the academy, causing his G22 to accidentally discharge. Inspection of the gun revealed some broken parts (firing pin safety and something else, maybe broken guide rail). These broken items made a perfect storm, allowing the firing pin to drop if it got bumped.

All our G22's were inspected and we found that multiple guns had similar broken parts. They were able to safely replicate the issue in the range.

Contacted Glock, they swapped out our 12 year old G22's for brand new 9mm pistols. Didn't cost us anything.

Apparently the pressure within the .40 is substantially higher than the 9mm. The .40 Glock can't sustain those higher pressures long term.

Sent from my SM-G950U using

Click to expand...

I'm not aware of any gun manufacture who will put a "life span" on a duty gun however it is believed 10 years is about it. And somewhere in there the gun should have a complete overhaul.

This seems like improper maintenance and upkeep and poor inspections more so than a defect in the firearm.

Click to expand...

Having, at one time, conducted and supervised a complete inspection of all Glock model 22, .40cal service weapons used by the BPD... I happen to agree with your assessment. Inspections of duty pistols should be regular SOP. And proper inspections should have found these deficiencies long before any problems with broken or worn parts would have occurred.