M1 Garand Re-Barrel

Firespectrum · Mar 20, 2013

I have a CMP M1 Garand with muzzle erosion of 2 and throat erosion of 2 1/2.

The groups leave something to be desired so I'd like to find local smith who can install a new Criterion Barrel. I don't feel comfortable headspacing it myself.

I want to turn it into a tack-driver so suggestions for scope mounting and optics from experienced Garand guys would also be appreciated!

Threeband · Mar 20, 2013

Those numbers don't sound bad to me. I would check other things before replacing the barrel.

First, what sort of groups are you getting?

How is the lockup of the trigger group? Have you done a tilt test? Could the op rod be binding? Is your upper handguard a bit loose? Is the gas cylinder tight?

There is a Garandsmith in Catonsville, if it comes to that

What kind of Garand? WWII Rack Grade Springfield? Correct Grade HRA? What kind of stock: old worn out USGI, new CMP birch, old Greek Palletwood?.

The new replacement stocks from the CMP need a bit of fitting. That's very likely your problem.

Why try to scope it? Why not make it John C Garand Match legal and come out to the matches?

Oh, welcome to the forum by the way.

Do tell us a bit about your Garand!

Firespectrum · Mar 20, 2013

Threeband,

Well, I don't know anything about Garands other than I really wanted one...

It's a Korean War Era Service Grade HRA from CMP.

This is really embarrassing, but by "bad groups", I mean I could barely get it on paper at 50 yards. Each click seems to move it way too much. I assumed I was just sucking so I gave it to an old-timer at the range who had a Garand. He was doing better than me, but he was still all over the place. He said the muzzle was probably too eroded.

I don't know what you mean by trigger "lockup", but there's noticeable slack before you feel it engage the sear. Once it catches, there isn't much creep and it was better than I expected from a military trigger. In fact, I love the trigger so much it was extra disappointing I was having problems.

I just did a tilt test using this procedure (your post was the first time I'd heard of that):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlIoxbtdPXY

It slid back from the closed bolt position freely after 45 degrees, but it did not fall back freely to the closed position until I tilted it 50-60 degrees. This was without the stock. Will I need to take it to a Garand doctor to fix this?

The stock feels snug when it's put together, but the forwardmost section of wood near the muzzle feels loose.

The only reason I wanted to scope it is because I don't own a bolt gun and I thought the Garand could pull double-duty as a hunting rifle if the need ever arises. I love shooting iron sights and I don't actually hunt, so I'm not completely set on a scope yet.

Thanks for the very helpful post BTW!

Firespectrum · Mar 20, 2013

Oh, and I would be interested in coming out to the matches if I can get this baby squared-away, work/finances permitting.

Mt Airy · Mar 20, 2013

If you want it done right get in touch with Charley Malonny . He is hands down the best.

4570inMD · Mar 20, 2013

Mtairy Biker said:
If you want it done right get in touch with Charley Maloney . He is hands down the best.

+1
http://www.charliemaloney.com/

Catonsville, MD by appointment

4570inMD

stu929 · Mar 20, 2013

There is no way the barrel is to blame. 2 @ the muzzle is not bad many newer barrels were 1+ from the factory. Something else is going on.

Not saying you will have the perfect tqck driver you are asking for but something else is causing it. First thing I would check are he sights. Make sure both are tight. Sounds silly but I had an M1 that did the same and it drove me nuts until I found the issue now its very accurate with a little fitting done after I fixed the sights.

stu929 · Mar 20, 2013

I would offer to take a look at it but college park is kinda far and I've been working in wv a lo lately.

A1Uni · Mar 20, 2013

The best M1 guys on the planet are at Orion 7. You would have to ship the gun, but it is well worth the time.

They have done a lot of work for us, perfect and quick every time.

http://www.m1garand.com/

rdc · Mar 20, 2013

I also had a problem with loose sights. The resr was dropping under recoil. I'd you get too frustrated. I'll gladly take it off your hands!

Threeband · Mar 20, 2013

The only way it could be the barrel is if somehow the CMP people had overlooked serious crown damage. Very unlikely. If that were the case, I'm sure you could exchange it.

I really, really don't think it's the barrel. It's probably a simple tune-up sort of adjustment, or even loose sights.

It could be the stock. I'll bet you have a new replacement stock. Those typically need some fitting. Do the tilt test with the stock installed to see if the op rod is rubbing wood. I had to remove wood on my Service Grade. I'll see if I can post some links for you later. It also could be the gas cylinder, could be a lot of things.

I did think of the sights. I have had the front sight start moving around while I was shooting. It's happened on two different rifles - I made two or three windage adjustments until I realized the front sight was migrating. I now carry a 3/16 allen wrench with my Garand stuff. Should be on the combo tool. More likely the rear sight in your case. Windage and elevation can both shift. Make sure the screw on the elevation knob is snug- I've had my rear sight shift while shooting, too.

Lube the bolt and the chamber area where the op rod rubs before doing the tilt tests (both in and out of the stock). Google "M1 Garand Grease Points."

"Lock up" refers to how tight the trigger group locks up when you assemble the rifle. It's probably very tight in a new stock. You may even need a mallet to lock it. Old stocks can be loose.

Firespectrum · Mar 20, 2013

Thanks for all the great replies!

I will look into tightening the sights and making sure the op rod isn't rubbing on wood.

A forum member has offered to inspect the weapon, so hopefully that will shed some light on the matter.

I was actually going to buy a special grade M1 and sell this one, but I figured I should ask about it first. Glad I did! .... I still might get another one though - I just got a new credit card...

ken792 · Mar 20, 2013

Firespectrum said:
Thanks for all the great replies!

I will look into tightening the sights and making sure the op rod isn't rubbing on wood.

A forum member has offered to inspect the weapon, so hopefully that will shed some light on the matter.

I was actually going to buy a special grade M1 and sell this one, but I figured I should ask about it first. Glad I did! .... I still might get another one though - I just got a new credit card...

Buy another one anyway.

ken792 · Mar 20, 2013

I just talked to him. It's a GI stock, so that shouldn't cause any issues. The front sight screw was also tight, so that's not going anywhere. His rear sight was on the loose side. He could push it back down by hand after turning it out all the way. His gas screw was so loose that he could turn it by hand. Those may be the issues. I invited him out to the range with us on Saturday, so hopefully we can test this thing out.

Threeband · Mar 20, 2013

He's probably lucky he got a GI stock, but it might be loose. If it is, he could probably swap for a new stock PLUS a can of ammo or two. There are lots of subtleties affecting Garand accuracy such as the fit of the handguards, and the staking of the stacking swivel screw. The gas cylinder might be loose. It's not hard to peen the splines.

I also wonder about the bench rest technique, as well as the expectations of the shooter himself.

rdc · Mar 20, 2013

"His rear sight was on the loose side. He could push it back down by hand after turning it out all the way." that's how loose mine was when it was dropping when firing.
Im sure gas plug isn't helping.
Question to the guys- how tight should your gas cylinder be? Mine seems a little loose. It wobbles ever so slightly and is easily removable by hand.

ken792 · Mar 20, 2013

Threeband said:
I also wonder about the bench rest technique, as well as the expectations of the shooter himself.

He's ex-Army, so his shooting is decent and he knows how to shoot with a sling. He said if he can get it zeroed and shooting 4MOA groups with CMP Greek ammo, he'd be fine with it.

rdc said:
Question to the guys- how tight should your gas cylinder be? Mine seems a little loose. It wobbles ever so slightly and is easily removable by hand.

Some WWII era barrels had the splines cut on the large side. That's why a lot of gas tubes had saw cuts through them. The idea was that you can tighten them down by turning the front sight screw tighter. The Army manual specifies not to remove the gas tube for routine cleaning.

My 1946 dated barrel has the gas tube on loosely enough that I can notice a little wobble. I can slide the gas tube off by hand. However, that doesn't stop me from shooting 97/100's (on an SR-1 at 100 yards) with it. The one I have with a 1952 dated barrel has a tight fitting gas tube. There is no side to side wobble that I can discern. On that one I need to tap the gas tube off with a block of wood. I can also shoot 97/100's with it. Neither have saw cuts.

Saw cut to tighten gas cylinder.

dist1646 · Mar 20, 2013

Lightly peen one side of the slots where it slides on to the barrel just enough to take out the play and it will be fine. If you want to have your Garand checked over, Charlie Maloney is top notch. I have known Charlie for years and he is the guy I go to for work on Garands or M1A's.

Do Not Saw Cut!

Firespectrum · Mar 20, 2013

Judging from my conversation with Ken792, it looks like there are a lot of little things I need to do. I can't wait to get her out to the range with some folks that can get her dialed in.

Firespectrum · Mar 20, 2013

ken792 said:
He's ex-Army, so his shooting is decent and he knows how to shoot with a sling.

I like to think so at least. I find bench shooting unnatural since I was never actually instructed in that position. I probably do need to work on that too.

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