Pepper spray and pocket knives in D.C.

ezliving · Aug 9, 2010

What's the law?

Read online that pepper spray has to be registered with the police (and they won't.)

Read elsewhere that registration only applies to pepper spray purchased in D.C., not in the states.

What about folding pocket knives?

joppaj · Aug 9, 2010

Pepper Spray is good to go. I believe the registration is indeed only if sold in the city and I've never checked to see if a can was registered. I wouldn't even know how to check that.

Knives with a blade greater than 3" are covered under DC Code 22-4514(b), Possesion of a Prohibited Weapon (B). This requires intent to injure someone else before it's a crime. Therefore, if carried as a tool or a box opener, no big deal. If it's for protection, big deal.

Please refer to my signature line.

Ethan83 · Aug 9, 2010

joppaj said:
Pepper Spray is good to go. I believe the registration is indeed only if sold in the city and I've never checked to see if a can was registered. I wouldn't even know how to check that.

Knives with a blade greater than 3" are covered under DC Code 22-4514(b), Possesion of a Prohibited Weapon (B). This requires intent to injure someone else before it's a crime. Therefore, if carried as a tool or a box opener, no big deal. If it's for protection, big deal.

Please refer to my signature line.

How is intending to use it for protection construed as intent to injure someone? Do you mean to say that if I were to use my fists to defend myself during a mugging, I would be charged with assault for giving the guy a bloody nose or a black eye? Isn't self-defense practically the antithesis of malicious intent?

Also, you mean 3" - does that mean any folder under 3" is GTG no matter what, pretty much?

MikeTF · Aug 9, 2010

I'm interested in the Kimber Guarding Angel for my daughter:

joppaj · Aug 9, 2010

Ethan83 said:
How is intending to use it for protection construed as intent to injure someone? Do you mean to say that if I were to use my fists to defend myself during a mugging, I would be charged with assault for giving the guy a bloody nose or a black eye? Isn't self-defense practically the antithesis of malicious intent?

Fists aren't covered under PPW-B. Argue all you care to about a right to self-defense, but tell the investigator that you had the knife for any purpose related to putting it into a human being and you're going to face charges. I'm not trying to be a jerk Ethan, that's just the way the law is written.

Ethan83 said:
Also, you mean 3" - does that mean any folder under 3" is GTG no matter what, pretty much?

There is no charge for carrying a folding knife with a blade less than 3" in length.

Also, please everyone understand that DC's weapon laws are anything but clear on a lot of issues. I think the questions asked here are pretty clear cut but it's also worth noting that many public buildings may not permit any blade in.

Ethan83 · Aug 9, 2010

joppaj said:
Fists aren't covered under PPW-B. Argue all you care to about a right to self-defense, but tell the investigator that you had the knife for any purpose related to putting it into a human being and you're going to face charges. I'm not trying to be a jerk Ethan, that's just the way the law is written.

Sorry, my choice of phrasing came off poorly; I only meant to ask as devil's advocate. I sorta assumed the answer was more or less "cuz they say so." I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and apologize if I came off as caustic!

joppaj said:
There is no charge for carrying a folding knife with a blade less than 3" in length.

Also, please everyone understand that DC's weapon laws are anything but clear on a lot of issues. I think the questions asked here are pretty clear cut but it's also worth noting that many public buildings may not permit any blade in.

I guess I should have been more specific (if there is a more specific answer to be had) - are only blades less than 3" considered kosher, or is a 3" blade also cool? I ask because I carry a Kershaw Leek 24/7 (3" blade exactly), but have (probably prudently) left it in the car when protesting in DC.

Thanks again, sorry I came off douchey!

joppaj · Aug 9, 2010

No worries at all Ethan, you're one of the good ones around here. DC's Laws are a mess. The Leek should be just fine, it's a work knife. Be advised that officers will generally be a little less understanding during a demonstration due to past history of trouble but there is nothing per se making it illegal though.

outofthegame · Aug 9, 2010

Sorry, joppaj, I think I recycled my DC Code book.

hole punch · Aug 9, 2010

don't dwink waddle when you eat pepples. waddle will make it wuss.

Threeband · Aug 9, 2010

MikeTF said:
I'm interested in the Kimber Guarding Angel for my daughter:

Get one for yourself too. I've been carrying one religiously for two years- I mean every moment I'm away from home. Right rear pocket, in a cut-down Uncle Mikes pocket holster.

I was convinced of it's effectiveness when I used it on a rabid groundhog. ( http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=739341&postcount=21)

Another time I drew it (but didn't fire) when I spent about ten minutes facing down a large, aggressive dog in the street. This dog really wanted to come at me, but was confused by my confidence. Finally it backed down, very reluctantly.

A third time I reached for it, but didn't draw when a guy tried to mug me/ strong arm me as I was leaving the bank one day. He saw me reach for something, as I invited him to walk on ahead of me. He suddenly remembered something he'd forgotten inside the bank.

So yeah, I recommend it.

Even if/when we all get our Maryland carry permits, I'm going to want to keep carrying it. There are a lot of situations where a good blast of OC is more appropriate than a 124 grain bonded hollow point. It's good to have both options (but vital to make the right choice of tool instantly-subject for another thread.).

ECPDefense · Aug 10, 2010

Pepper Spray is legal with restrictions in DC.
http://www.ecpdefense.com/pages/laws
The buyer must fill out a registration and the vendor submits it to metro police. I have never seen the form or ever submitted one. Remember that laws are forever changing so it is up to buyer to check local laws.

The funny thing is that dog and bear sprays are legal to buy and possess in almost every state. Same thing... Different packaging. LOL

You could also look into kubotans with a key ring or personal alarms. I am not aware of any laws against their possesion and use. I always say that something is better than nothing.

AliasNeo07 · Jun 25, 2011

joppaj said:
Pepper Spray is good to go. I believe the registration is indeed only if sold in the city and I've never checked to see if a can was registered. I wouldn't even know how to check that.

Knives with a blade greater than 3" are covered under DC Code 22-4514(b), Possesion of a Prohibited Weapon (B). This requires intent to injure someone else before it's a crime. Therefore, if carried as a tool or a box opener, no big deal. If it's for protection, big deal.

Please refer to my signature line.

I'd like to carry my endura for my EDC tasks (4 inch blade) in D.C. What if you're carrying it for edc purposes like box opening, food prep, etc, but then god forbid you're forced to use it in a self defense scenario? Would that be illegal, since it was not carried FOR the purpose, but ended up being USED for that purpose?

Bikebreath · Jun 25, 2011

I bought some pepper spray for my Mother and the Library of Congress took it from her and told her it was illegal. It was 15 years ago...should I try and get it back?

My point is, if it is legal then why did they take it?

ProShooter · Jun 25, 2011

Pepper spray is a great tool that everyone should carry. Its a great intermediate weapon that can be utilized before a handgun.

joppaj · Jun 25, 2011

Bikebreath said:
I bought some pepper spray for my Mother and the Library of Congress took it from her and told her it was illegal. It was 15 years ago...should I try and get it back? My point is, if it is legal then why did they take it?

Fifteen years ago it would have required registration I believe. Also, many of the Gov't buildings have more restictive policies in place. You can either throw it away or leave, but you can't go in with it. It hasn't been that long that OC has been legal in DC for general carry.

joppaj · Jun 25, 2011

AliasNeo07 said:
I'd like to carry my endura for my EDC tasks (4 inch blade) in D.C. What if you're carrying it for edc purposes like box opening, food prep, etc, but then god forbid you're forced to use it in a self defense scenario? Would that be illegal, since it was not carried FOR the purpose, but ended up being USED for that purpose?

You'll probably be arrested. Sucks but true. Although the statute says that it requires intent, using it in a fight will probably be enough unless it's crystal clear from the word go that you were just defending yourself from an unexpected attack. In all liklihood it would be up to your lawyer to hammer that point home in court as they attack the PC for the arrest. I AM NOT A LAWYER.

AliasNeo07 · Jun 26, 2011

joppaj said:
You'll probably be arrested. Sucks but true. Although the statute says that it requires intent, using it in a fight will probably be enough unless it's crystal clear from the word go that you were just defending yourself from an unexpected attack. In all liklihood it would be up to your lawyer to hammer that point home in court as they attack the PC for the arrest. I AM NOT A LAWYER.

Right. What I'm saying is if its extremely clear...like...someone came into my place of work with a gun and started shooting, or if i'm on the street walking to my car and someone pulls a knife on me and tries to rob me, and I used a blade longer than 3 inches to defend myself because I happened to have it on my for everyday tasks like opening boxes, cutting apples, etc, in YOUR opinion (I know you're not a lawyer,) that would seem to be legal, would it not?

Just curious.

Thanks.

joppaj · Jun 26, 2011

That would seem to be legal in my opinion. Understand that I am only commenting that you won't be charged for the knife itself. The actions taken with it may be a whole different ballgame. I really don't recall DC's "self defense/ justifable homicde" laws off the top of my head.

AliasNeo07 · Jun 26, 2011

joppaj said:
That would seem to be legal in my opinion. Understand that I am only commenting that you won't be charged for the knife itself. The actions taken with it may be a whole different ballgame. I really don't recall DC's "self defense/ justifable homicde" laws off the top of my head.

Yeah. I feel the same way. In fact when I got a job in DC I called the Metropolitan Police Dept because I wanted to be on the safe side. One cop told me there was a 3 inch limit. Then I called back the next day and asked for a supervisor or someone who "specialized" in weapons laws, whatever that might mean. That officer told me that there is no blade length limit as long as I don't carry it intending to hurt someone, and that switchblades were illegal.

I don't know, maybe I'll carry two delicas instead. They are both 3 inches. I wonder if a cop would freak over someone having two knives. Probably.

AliasNeo07 · Jun 26, 2011

Also, can anyone direct me to a link where it says pepper spray is legal in DC? I've been searching forever, and I can only find that it is legal to carry if you register it.

Pepper spray and pocket knives in D.C.

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