.357 Magnum Load for a Six Inch Barrel

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  • knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    I just ordered a Chiappa Rhino 60DS and I'm looking for a really hot 357 Magnum load, from a perspective of both velocity and fragmentation. I'm leaving toward G2 Research Telos, but I'm open to suggestions.
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    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Ok . I'll have to invoke the spectre of Semantics and Technical Arcana . What exactly do you seek ? What are you priorities ?

    Literally having the bullet split into 5 or 6 equal-ish pieces ?

    Matching the energy and/ or momentum of the referenced G2 load ? ( Which is actually fairly mild by .357 standards )

    Penetration in Gel of a narrowly defined specified depth range ?

    Bragging rights for using the latest, greatest, high tech- ist ammo to impress your friends and shooting compradres ?

    An ( actually ) hot JHP , with violent expansion , and real world track record ?

    Or other parameters I have not yet guessef ??
     

    knastera

    Just another shooter
    May 6, 2013
    1,484
    Baltimore County
    Nothing so arcane and obtuse. Measurable things such as energy released, fps at 25', cavitation on impact, etc. Your basic "stopping power" against bad guys. I couldn't care less about what anyone else thinks except the coroner.


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    Last edited:

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Full power 125gr JHP . Federal, W-W, R-P, CCI, or Cor Bon pretty much interchangeably , with more lot to lot difference than brand to brand .

    Old school , but it works, with 40yrs of track record .

    Only if you need less recoil or muzzle blast , need you discuss a plan B . ( Hint - it's LOUD , and it kicks )
     

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    G2 Research Telos looks to me like its barely above 38 special power or 9mm power (394 ft-lbs).

    Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense are more than adequate for self defense, and well designed to expand in most situations. Crit Duty is ~500 ft lbs, Critical Defense is hotter at 624 ft lbs (https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun/357-mag-125-gr-ftx-critical-defense#!/).

    But 624 is not even remotely as "hot" as possible in 357. Buffalo Bore makes some stuff (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...jacketed-hollow-point-high-velocity-box-of-20) which is suitable for hunting medium four legged animals (802 ft lbs, and higher)..

    Here is a good source for performance of some standard self defense 38 special and 357 ammo, Lucky Gunner: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

    Keep in mind, for self defense, you do not really want "hot." Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast 357 is a beast, but too hot for self defense: it will just go through-and-through without expanding. That is for bigger animals. Like self defense against a bear. The high velocity buffalo Bore hollow point may over penetrate from a 6" barrel (see the lucky gunner entry for Buffalo Bore 125 gr Barnes XPB

    Also, peruse the LG table carefully, penetration is not simple a function of hotness: some low velocity loads overpenetrated, some high velocity loads were consistently in the sweet spot. Bullet design is a factor.

    My suggestion is Critical Defense, not because its hot, but because in tests it a) it consistently expands under a wide range of velocities and conditions (I have 2,4, 5, and 6" barrels, so this is important to me I can buy one reliable ammo for all) with and without denim; b) does not over penetrate.

    Now, accuracy is also an issue. No bad guy ever said "please shoot me with the 9mm, I can take it". 9mm (~380 ft lbs) is plenty for self defense. How fast you can get a second shot on target is important to. If hotness impedes your ability to follow up, choose a lighter load.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Buffalo bore 158gr XTP. I think they may make a 125gr XTP loading as well. If .357 magnum had a +P, those loads would be it.

    Granted I’ve mostly been looking at lever gun loads lately, but the Buffalo Bore XTP loadings out of a 16” barrel are typically 100-200fps faster than almost everyone else’s similar weight SJHP and JHP rounds in .357 magnum. Both for a handgun and for a rifle.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Also let me know how you like the Rhino. All I have for wheel guns is a Colt OP 6” right now. I am looking at a conventional .357 as my next wheel gun. A 4” 686 or GP100. After that though I may look at a snubbie .38sp and a Rhino in 5” or 6”. 6” seems a little bulky for one, but I think the total weight is actually pretty close to the weight of my Colt OP because of the heavy use of aluminum in the Rhino. And 6” means if I wanted to, I could use it for hunting.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    As noted above , .357mag , particularly from a six inch bbl potentially has a boatload of energy available , and minor differences at those levels isn't significant .

    As further noted , the designed bullet performance is a much bigger variable than energy per se , once you start approaching 500 ft lb . And at those levels , controlability often becomes an important factor .

    Alas , many of the above sugguestions are skewed more to deer & larger hunting than SD .

    I will partly try to mind read the OP, and partly take his request at face value :

    He DIDN'T mention defense against large animals . Nor looking for a dual purpose , ie hunting capable while still somewhat suitable for SD . ( SilverTip is the role model for that .)

    Further , his initial idea of the G2 has 12in- ish penetration , so presumably he doesn't have a philosophical obsession with deep penetration for its own sake .

    So , using those criteria , still points to 125jhp as starting point .
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    What exactly are you Breaking In on a revolver ?

    A severely rough bore or rough forcing cone have specific remedies . A box or two a jacketed to start couldn't hurt, but probably is mostly a mental exercise.

    Mate in the lockwork surfaces for smoother DA trigger pull ? Has to do with the number of cycles, not what is fired, if anything . A set of snap caps, and lots of dryfire .
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,730
    Socialist State of Maryland
    One of the objectives when breaking in a firearm is to insure reliability. This is true for any firearm that you plan to use for defensive or hunting purposes. The .44 revolvers that I carry in bear country get just as much break in as the M&P40c I carry on my hip or the S&W .45 Colt Mountain Gun which sits in the bed stand.

    If you have never experienced a failure to fire in a pistol, rifle, shotgun or revolver, you are pretty lucky or haven't shot much. Revolvers have been known for ejection rods unscrewing and locking up the gun, too tight headspace, with some cases, that will lock up the cylinder and for swarf under the cover plate that has locked up the action.

    In my opinion, every firearm you own should go through a break in period to insure it is reliable before using it for it's intended purpose. It's just basic common sense. ;)
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Ah ! Semantics !

    Bottomfeeders break in .
    Revolvers do their reliability verification .


    ***************

    No , I'm not claiming Revolvers are inherently infallible . But ( not as often as in years past, but more than zeri ) Semi's can heal themselves by shooting a certain amount of rounds , breaking in , in the literal sense .

    Revolver ills are not self correcting for the most part . You seek to discover baseline issues to recieve corrective treatment .

    ( The primary sort of exception I mentioned above , might be trigger pull . A semi- rough trigger pull will still reliably go bang , it will just gradually get smoother with use .)
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    You don't want hot 357 for a defensive load, the blast, noise and recoil are crazy, in a dark interior room it's basically like tossing a flash bang a couple feet in front of your face with a single bullet headed twards the threat. You are much better off with a moderate load with a heavy quality expanding bullet, like a gold dot. Despite trucking along fast for a handgun, there still isn't shock anywhere near the level of a rifle cal, and fragmentation just makes the load unpredictable, stick with a tough, conventional expanding bullet at a velocity it was designed to work with. Of course for showing off, hunting or fun, pick up some Underwood loads, probably the best commercial "hot loads" for the money. Should also work with speedloaders and running the gun on multiple targets. A lot of people get steered twards wheelguns for a defensive gun BECAUSE they want something easy and simple, but running one well is neither. Loading, unloading, clearing jams(yes they do jam, made worse with hot loads) and dealing with low capacity makes them a little more specialized, and it takes a special skill set to be proficient with one.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,151
    Sun City West, AZ
    While the .357 Magnum is an effective round...I would argue that two fast shots on target with an effective .38 Special is better than one loud blast with a .357 that you either have to take time to pull out of recoil for a follow-up or have to pick up after you drop it and grab your ears in pain. Of course that can change depending of you're indoors or out. Indoors even a .22 can be ear shattering if you're not prepared.

    It's kinda like the difference between a 9mm and a 10mm pistol. Both can be highly effective but depending on training and environment one might be harder to deal with.
     

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