Sliver spring man poached 228 Striped Bass

fabsroman · Apr 13, 2014

DaemonAssassin said:
What is really irritating is when I go with a buddy of mine to be his DD, when he goes fishing. I have a license, but when I am DD, I don't do any fishing at all and I stay at least 10 feet from the rods. I have had DNR walk up ad question me mercilessly, to the point that I politely told the officer to back off. Yet every time I get the 5th degree, the DNR officer ignores all the undocumented fisher-people, that are taking everything home that they can pull out of the water. DNR just ignores them and gives them a free pass for anything they want to do.

Pisses me off to no end.

How can you tell that they are "undocumented". I'm assuming that you mean they are illegal immigrants in this country illegally when you say "undocumented" versus using "undocumented" to mean they do not have a fishing license. Maybe "undocumented" is your code word for Hispanic. If so, don't you think the vast majority of them here legally, would take offense to the term?

I've had mostly good experiences with DNR in the field and in the courtroom on behalf of clients and personally. Had a really bad experience personally with a DNR agent that lied on the stand under oath, but I was still found Not Guilty even with her lying. That was my one and only bad experience with DNR in the field and in the courtroom. For the most part, DNR is pretty professional. It is just like any law enforcement agency though, the few bad ones give all the others a bad name. I've had them check me on the boat and in the blind and they were nothing other than polite with the exception of that one #$!$%#*&*($#@!*&(%&@!*&$&*@!(^$(*&!@$.

willy · Apr 13, 2014

Laws are laws. If they were so poor they had to poach, I can say with some hesitation that welfare and wic have been provided. Poor enough to have a boat and all the gear? More like failure to follow the laws for personal gain.

wilcam47 · Apr 14, 2014

TheBert said:
228 fish, not 228 pounds of fish.

yep, wonder if he used Gill nets? I dont think Ive ever caught that many fish in one day. The closest was catching croaker and we caught maybe 60 one day. but we didnt stay out all day.

willy said:
Laws are laws. If they were so poor they had to poach, I can say with some hesitation that welfare and wic have been provided. Poor enough to have a boat and all the gear? More like failure to follow the laws for personal gain.

Not that it matters to me but is there a size minimum on white perch?

SRD · Apr 14, 2014

wilcam47 said:
yep, wonder if he used Gill nets? I dont think Ive ever caught that many fish in one day. The closest was catching croaker and we caught maybe 60 one day. but we didnt stay out all day.

Not that it matters to me but is there a size minimum on white perch?

None for hook-n-line,IIRC 8'' if using gear.

wilcam47 · Apr 14, 2014

SRD said:
None for hook-n-line,IIRC 8'' if using gear.

just wondered why they mentioned the perch...at any rate its ridiculous to have that amount of fish...they should have seized his boat/gear as well as a fine

DaemonAssassin · Apr 14, 2014

fabsroman said:
How can you tell that they are "undocumented". I'm assuming that you mean they are illegal immigrants in this country illegally when you say "undocumented" versus using "undocumented" to mean they do not have a fishing license. Maybe "undocumented" is your code word for Hispanic. If so, don't you think the vast majority of them here legally, would take offense to the term?

I've had mostly good experiences with DNR in the field and in the courtroom on behalf of clients and personally. Had a really bad experience personally with a DNR agent that lied on the stand under oath, but I was still found Not Guilty even with her lying. That was my one and only bad experience with DNR in the field and in the courtroom. For the most part, DNR is pretty professional. It is just like any law enforcement agency though, the few bad ones give all the others a bad name. I've had them check me on the boat and in the blind and they were nothing other than polite with the exception of that one #$!$%#*&*($#@!*&(%&@!*&$&*@!(^$(*&!@$.

How can I tell? Their adamant refusal to speak English, when I witnessed them speaking it not more than 20 minutes before. In addition to the fact that they are the only ones in Frederick County that take 5 gallon buckets and take home everything they pull out of the water. There is a reason why a lot of people can't catch any fish after the end of June. When a DNR officer sees one of them pull a severely undersized fish out of the water and put it in the bucket, yet doesn't do a thing about it, that is a big freakin problem, don't you think?

BlackBart · Apr 14, 2014

Shame, lot of rock going to waste. :mad54:

No idea but I wonder what their immigration status is? Use em for crab bait........ poetic justice, rocks favorite food is soft crabs.

fabsroman · Apr 14, 2014

DaemonAssassin said:
How can I tell? Their adamant refusal to speak English, when I witnessed them speaking it not more than 20 minutes before. In addition to the fact that they are the only ones in Frederick County that take 5 gallon buckets and take home everything they pull out of the water. There is a reason why a lot of people can't catch any fish after the end of June. When a DNR officer sees one of them pull a severely undersized fish out of the water and put it in the bucket, yet doesn't do a thing about it, that is a big freakin problem, don't you think?

Let's be clear about one thing, I don't applaud people that grossly violate NR laws or any law for that matter. However, I also don't applaud those that label a NR violator that does not speak English as his native language, as an illegal immigrant.

Yeah, based upon your analysis we should be deporting a lot of American citizens. You make it seem as though just because somebody violates the Natural Resources code and has is a non-native English speaker, they must be an undocumented immigrant. We all know that every other English speaking American citizen would adamantly follow the NR code and never violate it. Thing is, I have yet to represent an undocumented illegal immigrant on a NR violation, yet I have represented several clients on NR violations.

Violating the NR code and being able to speak a foreign language does not make one an undocumented immigrant/illegal alien.

Just like being an American citizen does not mean one is an upstanding person that would never violate the NR code. If it did, all I would have to do is prove that my client is an American citizen in court and he should walk free.

I'm not for giving illegal immigrants a free pass, and neither are my IMMIGRANT parents. However, I find it quite offensive that people merely assume that law breakers must be illegal immigrants because they speak another language and/or illegal immigrants are the only ones that violate laws.

My parents came here without a pot to piss in, barely spoke any English, worked hard, became citizens the right way, are against giving a free pass to current illegal immigrants, and still have a noticeable Italian accent. When I was growing up, I found the way some people treated them because of their accent to be repulsive. It would be something like me thinking I am better than the vast majority of Americans because I make more money than them.

The only thing that makes you better than the law breakers is that you are not breaking the law. Not that you are white and they are, I assume, Hispanic. Then again, not breaking the law might not even make you better than them. Plenty of good Hispanic people in the US. Plenty of good people in the US that run afoul of a law here and there. I know I have. Willing to bet you have received some citation in your life too, or done something in your life that violated a law but did not get caught.

How does the saying go, "The one without sin shall cast the first stone."

End of the day, I just find it hard to make the leap that all immigrants that violate NR laws are illegal immigrants. Then again, I know my dad received a NR violation for not wearing orange while hunting on a game preserve. I'll go let him know that his American citizenship has been revoked because his native language is not English and he had a NR violation. Be right back.

Yeah, can't post what he told me to tell you.

The crazy thing is, I was in District Court in Frederick last year representing a client on NR violations and the vast majority of the defendants were white.

Rant over.

PS - this is the reason I am glad my parents decided to teach me English instead of Italian. Then, sometimes I am disappointed that they didn't teach me Italian first. Much harder to learn it as an adult.

DaemonAssassin · Apr 14, 2014

fabsroman said:
Let's be clear about one thing, I don't applaud people that grossly violate NR laws or any law for that matter. However, I also don't applaud those that label a NR violator that does not speak English as his native language, as an illegal immigrant.

Yeah, based upon your analysis we should be deporting a lot of American citizens. You make it seem as though just because somebody violates the Natural Resources code and has is a non-native English speaker, they must be an undocumented immigrant. We all know that every other English speaking American citizen would adamantly follow the NR code and never violate it. Thing is, I have yet to represent an undocumented illegal immigrant on a NR violation, yet I have represented several clients on NR violations.

Violating the NR code and being able to speak a foreign language does not make one an undocumented immigrant/illegal alien.

Just like being an American citizen does not mean one is an upstanding person that would never violate the NR code. If it did, all I would have to do is prove that my client is an American citizen in court and he should walk free.

I'm not for giving illegal immigrants a free pass, and neither are my IMMIGRANT parents. However, I find it quite offensive that people merely assume that law breakers must be illegal immigrants because they speak another language and/or illegal immigrants are the only ones that violate laws.

My parents came here without a pot to piss in, barely spoke any English, worked hard, became citizens the right way, are against giving a free pass to current illegal immigrants, and still have a noticeable Italian accent. When I was growing up, I found the way some people treated them because of their accent to be repulsive. It would be something like me thinking I am better than the vast majority of Americans because I make more money than them.

The only thing that makes you better than the law breakers is that you are not breaking the law. Not that you are white and they are, I assume, Hispanic. Then again, not breaking the law might not even make you better than them. Plenty of good Hispanic people in the US. Plenty of good people in the US that run afoul of a law here and there. I know I have. Willing to bet you have received some citation in your life too, or done something in your life that violated a law but did not get caught.

How does the saying go, "The one without sin shall cast the first stone."

End of the day, I just find it hard to make the leap that all immigrants that violate NR laws are illegal immigrants. Then again, I know my dad received a NR violation for not wearing orange while hunting on a game preserve. I'll go let him know that his American citizenship has been revoked because his native language is not English and he had a NR violation. Be right back.

Yeah, can't post what he told me to tell you.

The crazy thing is, I was in District Court in Frederick last year representing a client on NR violations and the vast majority of the defendants were white.

Rant over.

PS - this is the reason I am glad my parents decided to teach me English instead of Italian. Then, sometimes I am disappointed that they didn't teach me Italian first. Much harder to learn it as an adult.

Allow me to be clear with what I am saying. That was not a personal attack against you, nor your parents. It is not my problem you took it as such. My issues lies within the fact, that you, didn't even attempt to understand what I was trying to say. You took it personally, when you shouldn't have. Also, profiling goes both ways, bub. I'm not offended by you profiling me, but my race has ZERO to do with this.

With the above being said, maybe you should get down off your legal high horse and check out what I am speaking of, at some point. Not everything occurs in the courtroom. If you had witnessed the continuous rape of our NR, by these people like I have, then maybe you would see my point.

My issue lies in the fact, that I have witnessed them go to the same spot, day after day, and take home everything they catch. DNR sees them do it and harasses me, yet won't even approach them, yet they see that they are breaking the law. Taking fish home from a catch and release stream? Yea, I've seen them do it a lot. Take at least 10 baby bass (less than 6" long) home? Yea, I've seen them do that too. I've seen them take home well more than the daily limit on fish too. DNR doesn't lift a finger, but they harass whitey. The few times I have seen DNR approach them and ask if they have a fishing license, they pull out their DL's and pretend they can't speak English. DNR gets so flustered, trying to communicate, that they usually give up and walk away. Hey, why should they go after the ones that they know are breaking NR laws, when they can mess with somebody they know speaks English?

I've seen a one of those undocumented fisher-people (he was alone) take 10, yes that is 10 trout home, which is a violation of DNR, while a DNR officer was right there watching him. DNR didn't lift a finger.
http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/fishing/put-and-take-trout-fishing-areas/

Here is a list of the take home limits, per person, according to DNR.
http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/13mdfw/seasons-minimum-sizes-daily-creel-possession-limits/

I have seen them take 2-3 times as many home, per person, in a single day, in front of a DNR officer that didn't do squat, but came after me, even thought I was doing catch and release. DNR and their half-a$$ed enforcement needs to grow the hell up. Enough is enough, and the next time I get harassed by a DNR officer, I'm going to pull the same crap the undocumented fisher-people do, just to see if that works.

Straightshooter · Apr 14, 2014

He should have been fined another $2,000 for being dumb enough to land his illegal catch at a state owned ramp.

kgain673 · Apr 14, 2014

Just imagine how many people don't get caught. But, the DNR checking licenses and stopping boats is just a revenue builder for the state.

BlackBart · Apr 14, 2014

fabsroman said:
Then, sometimes I am disappointed that they didn't teach me Italian first. Much harder to learn it as an adult.

Not that important Paisan, the only time it REALLY mattered is when they were talking dirt about someone and they didn't want you to understand.

I did well while in Italy.... cab drivers understood Stefano wanted beer, switch blade, El Gutto and gotta shit.

ohen cepel · Apr 14, 2014

I don't care where he's from and I don't fish.

However, that it jacked up that he got away with what seems to me to be a very light fine.

Not a fan of taking a guy's car, truck, boat, rifle, etc when they are caught breaking the law since it is often extreme. Don't know of many other crimes where they take a $30,000 truck from a guy for a crime which isn't a felony.

An illegal deer doesn't equal a $500 rifle and a $30k truck in my mind.

Don't know what a boat is worth but not sure fish are worth $40k.

BlackBart · Apr 14, 2014

ohen cepel said:
I don't care where he's from and I don't fish.

However, that it jacked up that he got away with what seems to me to be a very light fine.

Not a fan of taking a guy's car, truck, boat, rifle, etc when they are caught breaking the law since it is often extreme. Don't know of many other crimes where they take a $30,000 truck from a guy for a crime which isn't a felony.

An illegal deer doesn't equal a $500 rifle and a $30k truck in my mind.

Don't know what a boat is worth but not sure fish are worth $40k.

Doesn't matter, 200 plus fish is a LOT of violations. He should be lynched IMO. Illegal deer.... sure 500 dollar rifle but not a 40K truck.

Claybreaker 2 · Apr 14, 2014

DaemonAssassin said:
Allow me to be clear with what I am saying. That was not a personal attack against you, nor your parents. It is not my problem you took it as such. My issues lies within the fact, that you, didn't even attempt to understand what I was trying to say. You took it personally, when you shouldn't have. Also, profiling goes both ways, bub. I'm not offended by you profiling me, but my race has ZERO to do with this.

With the above being said, maybe you should get down off your legal high horse and check out what I am speaking of, at some point. Not everything occurs in the courtroom. If you had witnessed the continuous rape of our NR, by these people like I have, then maybe you would see my point.

My issue lies in the fact, that I have witnessed them go to the same spot, day after day, and take home everything they catch. DNR sees them do it and harasses me, yet won't even approach them, yet they see that they are breaking the law. Taking fish home from a catch and release stream? Yea, I've seen them do it a lot. Take at least 10 baby bass (less than 6" long) home? Yea, I've seen them do that too. I've seen them take home well more than the daily limit on fish too. DNR doesn't lift a finger, but they harass whitey. The few times I have seen DNR approach them and ask if they have a fishing license, they pull out their DL's and pretend they can't speak English. DNR gets so flustered, trying to communicate, that they usually give up and walk away. Hey, why should they go after the ones that they know are breaking NR laws, when they can mess with somebody they know speaks English?

I've seen a one of those undocumented fisher-people (he was alone) take 10, yes that is 10 trout home, which is a violation of DNR, while a DNR officer was right there watching him. DNR didn't lift a finger.
http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/fishing/put-and-take-trout-fishing-areas/

Here is a list of the take home limits, per person, according to DNR.
http://www.eregulations.com/maryland/13mdfw/seasons-minimum-sizes-daily-creel-possession-limits/

I have seen them take 2-3 times as many home, per person, in a single day, in front of a DNR officer that didn't do squat, but came after me, even thought I was doing catch and release. DNR and their half-a$$ed enforcement needs to grow the hell up. Enough is enough, and the next time I get harassed by a DNR officer, I'm going to pull the same crap the undocumented fisher-people do, just to see if that works.

Its a simple collections matter. You are what I describe as the low hanging fruit in that you have a garnishable job, fixed residence, licenses and permits that can be withheld for nonpayment... I'm sure the DNR sees the "undocumented fisher-people" as a waste of time as they are unlikely to pay any fines or change their behavior. Its more often about the money then the natural resources.

pc1256 · Apr 14, 2014

I'm just curious what did they do to the 228 pounds of fish? Does DNR have their own super market?

K.C.Dean · Apr 14, 2014

willy said:
Laws are laws. If they were so poor they had to poach, I can say with some hesitation that welfare and wic have been provided. Poor enough to have a boat and all the gear? More like failure to follow the laws for personal gain.

This. Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine or do the time.

traveller · Apr 15, 2014

ohen cepel said:
I don't care where he's from and I don't fish.

However, that it jacked up that he got away with what seems to me to be a very light fine.

Not a fan of taking a guy's car, truck, boat, rifle, etc when they are caught breaking the law since it is often extreme. Don't know of many other crimes where they take a $30,000 truck from a guy for a crime which isn't a felony.

An illegal deer doesn't equal a $500 rifle and a $30k truck in my mind.

Don't know what a boat is worth but not sure fish are worth $40k.

This guy is a commercial poacher. Taking away his tools is imho justified.

pbharvey · Apr 15, 2014

traveller said:
This guy is a commercial poacher. Taking away his tools is imho justified.

I wonder how far the DNR goes as far as investigating who he's selling the fish to?

Streetgang · Apr 15, 2014

traveller said:
This guy is a commercial poacher. Taking away his tools is imho justified.

With that much fish, I've got to agree with you. With a bit of investigative work DNR probably would have been able to determine that as well.
It’s one thing taking a few fish over the creel limit or a couple outside the size limit but it's another completely when you have 228 illegal fish in your possession.
Fine the guy who poaches to eat, jail the guy who poaches for commercial gain and remove his means to continue otherwise he’ll be out poaching again.

Sliver spring man poached 228 Striped Bass

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