Sliver spring man poached 228 Striped Bass

Half-cocked said:

He's not a poacher, he's an Undocumented Guest Aquatic Harvester, and the DNR should be ashamed.

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willy said:

I take kids to the nicodemues bridge during the summer, maybe 25 people not one has a license. They were laughing about it in 5 different languages. DNR drives by all the lines come out of the water. Never see a DNR. But the other day he makes the 1.5 mile hike to check me out.

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Whoa whoa whoa..."undocumented" and "laughing about it in 5 different languages"? What are you guys implying?

These boards are no place for those kinds of jokes!

(Got kicked in the fellas for doing that a few days ago on a different thread...but I'm not bitter about it.)

WTF why did they reduce it to a single charge? That's BS. It should have been 228 charges at $2,000 for each fish. That equates to $456, 000. It would send one helluva message for the next fool.

That's a lot of fish tacos

pbharvey said:

That's a lot of fish tacos

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K.C.Dean said:

WTF why did they reduce it to a single charge? That's BS. It should have been 228 charges at $2,000 for each fish. That equates to $456, 000. It would send one helluva message for the next fool.

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Make it $10 million, doesn't matter it won't be paid regardless of the amount.

two fricken grand for POACHING 228 fish? Unreal. The only message this sends to poachers is "hey, it's still worth it if you get caught!"

This is just crazy.

Maybe they're undocumented workers. Special rules for them.

Skins_Brew said:

No pity from me. They should have fined him more and taken his boat. One of my major problems with people in Maryland is that they think they can do whatever the **** they want. Oh, I don't feel like taking my trash to the dump? Let me just throw it on the side of the road. Oh, I don't feel like dealing with my used motor oil, so let me just change my oil over a storm drain (witnessed this first hand, photographed it, AND called park police). We have a lot of BS laws in this damn state but some of them make sense.

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100% agreed!


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pbharvey said:

That's a lot of fish tacos

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The amount of fish suggests a commercial operation.

Lot's of people speculating on a ton of stuff.

Was he going to sell them? Who knows.

1) There were 4 people on the boat. The fish would have probably been split into 4 groups of 57 fish a person.
2) All the fish were UNDER 18", which is illegal in the first place to catch, but they surely do not provide as much meat as a trophy size rockfish.

Throw away the key and let the man rot we say, yet we have no idea if he is the primary bread earner for a family with 5 kids and the family is broke as can be.

After WWII, my dad would kill tons of little birds in Italy to help feed him, his sister, his brother, and his parents. If there was something like DNR in Italy and there were laws about this stuff, he, his brother, his sister, and his parents wouldn't have given a damn.

Lots of judgment in this thread wherein nobody has walked in the man's shoes.

Punishments are not one size fits all, and sometimes Judges ask defendants how much they make a year before they decide on a fine. A $100 fine isn't squat for some people, and for others it means less food for the family.

If I was found guilty of something like this, I would probably have to deal with a character review committee/bar counsel and provide an explanation to the Maryland Board of Accountancy. Sometimes, it sucks to be a professional.

Am I pissed that the guy took 228 undersize stripers out of the bay? Yes. Am I ready to run him through the electric chair, hangman's noose, etc.? Nope. I would need to know a hell of a lot more about the facts surrounding the matter.

Oh yeah, supervised probation still costs money and requires him to show up to see his probation officer. So, this guy didn't walk away without any pain. Plus, I think the fine the judge hit him with is pretty much the maximum. I know it is 1 year in prison and $4,000 for a 2nd DNR offense within 2 years and the first one carries no prison time, but my best guess is that the max fine is $1,000 on a first offense.

Here is another one. Now this guy was charged with 7 different violations for poaching oysters, so he can really get hammered by the Judge for the 7 bushels that he poached. Looks like the fines on the citations total $2,115, but the Judge has some leeway both ways I bet.

Don't know if this guy was a Hispanic, assumed illegal immigrant per you guys, but he sounds like he has a good old boy American name, and note he is the Third.

This type of stuff happens a lot. DNR can only catch a portion of the BS. Kind of like law enforcement catching 100% of the drunks on the road. It just isn't going to happen.

Thing is, the DNR code is twice the size page wise as the Transportation Code and twice the size of the criminal code. Like I tell my hunting and fishing buddies, you need to have an attorney come along to ensure you are hunting and fishing legally.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisheries/news/story.asp?story_id=388

The Maryland Natural Resources Police charged a Crisfield waterman on Thursday afternoon with possession of seven bushels of undersized oysters.

“On the water, from the air and on land, NRP officers are making it clear that oyster poaching will not be tolerated," said Governor Martin O’Malley. "Poaching oysters not only robs Maryland citizens and law abiding watermen of this important resource, it hampers our efforts to restore the health of our Bay.”

An officer stopped a pick-up truck on Main Street in Crisfield after seeing what he believed to be undersized oysters in the bed and no tidal fish license number on the truck. He and another officer culled the entire load and found that the bushels contained from seven to 24 percent undersized oysters.

Paul Franklin Tyler III, 28, received seven citations, with fines totaling $2,115. The undersized oysters were confiscated and returned to Manokin Sanctuary.

Tyler is scheduled to appear in Somerset District Court on June 10.

Enhanced enforcement is a major component of Governor Martin O'Malley's Oyster Restoration and Aquaculture Development Plan to protect these resources and their habitat. The State is carrying out and making significant progress under the plan.

The State is committed to protecting Maryland's oyster resources and their habitat, ensuring progress under Governor Martin O'Malley's Oyster Restoration and Aquaculture Development Plan through efforts including enhanced enforcement.

The Maryland Department of Natural Resources, the Office of the Attorney General and the District Court of Maryland have expanded a successful program highlighting natural resources cases to 18 of Maryland's 24 jurisdictions. Under the program, cases including fishing, hunting, boating and tree expert violations are heard on a specific day each month in the region where they occurred, and prosecuted by a designated regional State's Attorney. NRP is working to have natural resource dockets put in place in the remaining six areas - Frederick, Harford, Montgomery, Prince George's, and Washington counties, and Baltimore City - by 2015.

ABOUT TIME!

zoostation said:

Wow, $8.77 per each illegal fish. That'll show 'em!

That's blatant. 228 fish. And this is just a guy they caught. He should have gotten time both because he deserved it, and to set an example.

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I agree 100%. A few months of week end jail should set a good example also. Lots of community service also. And if this guy was just caught on a fluke, makes you wonder about all these other guys doing it. His brother, cousin, father, son, 2nd cousin, 2nd cousins brother, his brother in law, the list just goes on and on.!!

THis also makes me wonder about the crabs in the bay. I have always found it curious about all the reasons they come up with for the shortage of crabs and NEVER attribute it to over harvesting,. illegal harvesting, under size harvesting, etc, etc.

its ABOUT TIME to kick some booty!@!

Well none of then had a license,.....hmm that sounds familiar

The people with the undersized fish are bad enough, but these others with multiple violations for undersized oysters, MAN, they need to pay some DUES!! That is just out and out F YOU!!

When ever they catch someone doing something illegal like this, usually there is at LEAST 10x that amount going on. At a MINIMUM.

I am a compassionate type of individual, but, this all seems pretty blatant disrespect. If that is the case, then something heavy needs to happen. Many laws protecting our resources are fairly weak, and that is why this guys keep doing it over and over. Again, it makes me think about the crab situation. Growing up in MD, it is just very sad with the way the situation with crabs has gotten to. DEFINATELY over harvesting and illegal harvesting going on. HAS TO BE...there are so MANY more people catching crabs that there used to be. I used to love BIG CRABS but can hardly afford them any more.

fabsroman said:

Here is another one. Now this guy was charged with 7 different violations for poaching oysters, so he can really get hammered by the Judge for the 7 bushels that he poached. Looks like the fines on the citations total $2,115, but the Judge has some leeway both ways I bet.

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Sorry, I don't agree with you, and I am not sure you agree with you either. This isn't killing a few birds in Italy many years ago. Illegal immigrants or not, you know if it was you or me, we would be in jail and they would toss the key. Ignorance or refusal to obey the law is not acceptable. The number of fish, the size of the fish, the lack of a license... this is BS. Sure the oysters lived, maybe that guy should have a reduced fine. In fact out of 7 bushels, he didn't do too bad, but not too good either.
The fish are gone and while I admit that small rockfish are the most delicious of them all, throw the book at them.

What a joke the fine is just the cost of doing business

T'Challa said:

Jail time would be harsh. I'm all for banning him from fishing or boating in the State for the next 10 years. I'm for community service to clean up the bay and woods.

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I doubt banning him from fishing and boating would be very effective. If he was willing to take that many fish and not have a license, do you really think a ban is going to stop him?

On the other hand, I don't want his azz sitting in jail while I pay for it.

I think confiscating his boat, vehicle and fishing tackle and weekend community service would work for me. Along with the fines.

Overboost44 said:

Sorry, I don't agree with you, and I am not sure you agree with you either. This isn't killing a few birds in Italy many years ago. Illegal immigrants or not, you know if it was you or me, we would be in jail and they would toss the key. Ignorance or refusal to obey the law is not acceptable. The number of fish, the size of the fish, the lack of a license... this is BS. Sure the oysters lived, maybe that guy should have a reduced fine. In fact out of 7 bushels, he didn't do too bad, but not too good either.
The fish are gone and while I admit that small rockfish are the most delicious of them all, throw the book at them.

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If it was you or me, we would NOT be in jail. There is no prison time associated with a first offense. PERIOD. The judge could NOT have given this guy prison time even if he wanted to. I handle at least one DNR case a year, sometimes a lot more.

This is the penalty provision regarding fishing. If there isn't a penalty specifically associated with a violation of Subtitle 4 of the Md. DNR code, this is what applies.

MD Code Nat. Res. 4-1201 Penalties (Maryland Code (2013 Edition))

(a) First offense. -- Except as otherwise specifically provided in this title, a person who violates any provision of this title is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, is subject to a fine not exceeding $ 1,000, with costs imposed in the discretion of the court.

(b) Second or subsequent offense. -- Unless another penalty is specifically provided elsewhere in this title, any person found guilty of a second or subsequent violation of any provision of this title is subject to a fine not exceeding $ 2,000, or imprisonment not exceeding one year, or both, with costs imposed in the discretion of the court. For the purpose of this subsection, a second or subsequent violation is one which has occurred within two years of any prior violation of this title.

Here it is for hunting:

MD Code Nat. Res. 10-1101 Penalties (Maryland Code (2013 Edition))

(a) Each game bird or mammal taken illegally constitutes separate offense. -- For the purpose of this title, each game bird or mammal taken illegally, purchased, offered for purchase, sold, bartered, or exchanged in excess of the bag limit or possessed illegally constitutes a separate offense.

(b) First offense. -- Any person who violates any provision of this title is guilty of a misdemeanor. Unless another penalty is specifically provided elsewhere in this title, the person, upon conviction, is subject to a fine not exceeding $ 1,500, with costs imposed in the discretion of the court.

(c) Second or subsequent offense. --

(1) Unless another penalty is specifically provided elsewhere in this title any person found guilty of a second or subsequent violation of any provision of this title, is subject to a fine not exceeding $ 4,000, or imprisonment not exceeding 1 year, or both, with costs imposed in the discretion of the court.

I put a couple of areas in bold to show that there is a difference between the two. If that had been 228 deer, he could have been charged with 228 counts.

Here is another big difference between hunting and fishing, the fishing violations can be expunged even if you are found guilty, the hunting violations cannot.

MD Code Nat. Res. 4-1208 Expungement of records (Maryland Code (2013 Edition))

(a) "Violation" defined. -- In this section, "violation" means a violation of:

(1) Any provision of this title; and

(2) Any rule or regulation concerning fish and fisheries adopted by the Department.

(b) Conditions for expungement. -- If a person applies for the expungement of the person's record concerning any violation, the Department shall expunge the record if, at the time of application:

(1) The person has not been convicted of a violation for the preceding 3 years, and any license issued to the person under this title has never been suspended or revoked;

(2) The person has not been convicted of a violation for the preceding 5 years, and any license issued to the person under this title shows not more than 1 suspension and no revocations; or

(3) The person has not been convicted of a violation for the preceding 10 years, regardless of the number of suspensions or revocations.

Now, sit back and think about why there is this discrepancy in the laws between hunting and fishing. More than likely, it isn't because of the influence of the recreational fisher's association, but most likely because of the commercial fishermen. If you think the stuff done by recreational fishers is having a huge impact on the bay, I can assure you that the bigger issue is with the commercial fishermen.

Ask yourself why a person has to jump through a bunch of hoops nowadays to become a hunting guide in Maryland. It is because the association of waterfowling guides got together and decided to erect a barrier to competition by requiring new people that want to guide to jump through several additional hoops to obtain a license.

Is what this guy did a bad thing? Yes. Did he pretty much receive the maximum sentence allowable by law? YES.

This is one of those "meh" instances for me. People get less than a $1,000 fine and no jail time for kicking the crap out of another person. Now, we want to fine the crap out of a guy and toss him in prison for catching 228 fish. You guys really should spend a day or two in District Court and listen to the sentences that people receive. If we are going to put DNR violators and other, more violent, criminals in prison, we are going to need a lot more prisons, especially first time offenders.

Edit to add:

Looks like the judge had the ability to put the guy into bankruptcy. I had to read a little further.

MD Code Nat. Res. 4-1201 Penalties (Maryland Code (2013 Edition))

(a) First offense. -- Except as otherwise specifically provided in this title, a person who violates any provision of this title is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, is subject to a fine not exceeding $ 1,000, with costs imposed in the discretion of the court.

(b) Second or subsequent offense. -- Unless another penalty is specifically provided elsewhere in this title, any person found guilty of a second or subsequent violation of any provision of this title is subject to a fine not exceeding $ 2,000, or imprisonment not exceeding one year, or both, with costs imposed in the discretion of the court. For the purpose of this subsection, a second or subsequent violation is one which has occurred within two years of any prior violation of this title.

(c) Violation of rule or regulation -- In general. -- In addition to any administrative penalty provided in this title, violation of any rule or regulation adopted by any unit within the Department pursuant to the provisions of this title is a misdemeanor and is punishable as provided in subsections (a) and (b) of this section.

(d) Violation of rule or regulation -- Unlawful capture of rockfish or striped bass. --

(1) In addition to any other applicable penalty set forth in subsections (a) and (b) of this section, a person who violates any provision of this title or any regulations adopted by the Secretary under the authority of this title concerning the taking of or creel limits for striped bass, commonly known as rockfish, shall be subject to the following penalties:

(i) For a first violation, a fine not exceeding $ 1,500 per fish;

(ii) For a second violation, within a 2-year period, a fine not exceeding $ 2,500 per fish and revocation of the fishing license for a period not less than 1 year but not more than 2 years; and

(iii) For a third violation within a 4-year period, a fine not exceeding $ 2,500 per fish and revocation of the fishing license for a period not less than 2 years but not more than 5 years.

(2) In addition to any other penalty provided under this title, a person who commits any of the following violations, and the violation results in the unlawful capture of over $ 20,000 worth of striped bass as determined by the proceeds of the unlawful capture, is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 2 years:

(i) Using unlawful gear;

(ii) Harvesting during closed seasons;

(iii) Harvesting from a closed area;

(iv) Violating established harvest, catch, or size limits; or

(v) Violating tagging and reporting requirements.

Still no jail time, but the judge could have gone up to a fine of $342,000. Instead, the sentence was a $2,000 fine and ONE day of unsupervised probation. Not only that, but it looks like the defendant did not have the ability to pay the fine right away because it is a deferred payment case. The attorney must have been able to show that his client didn't have a lot of money. Again, $2,000 isn't a big deal for me and some other people, but it could break others. Hell, if I only had to pay $2,000 and that was the end of it for me, I would be happy. Others would need a second job to pay that. Of course, the judge probably would have hit you or me with a $20,000 fine so get the point across to us.

johnnyb2 said:

The people with the undersized fish are bad enough, but these others with multiple violations for undersized oysters, MAN, they need to pay some DUES!! That is just out and out F YOU!!

When ever they catch someone doing something illegal like this, usually there is at LEAST 10x that amount going on. At a MINIMUM.

I am a compassionate type of individual, but, this all seems pretty blatant disrespect. If that is the case, then something heavy needs to happen. Many laws protecting our resources are fairly weak, and that is why this guys keep doing it over and over. Again, it makes me think about the crab situation. Growing up in MD, it is just very sad with the way the situation with crabs has gotten to. DEFINATELY over harvesting and illegal harvesting going on. HAS TO BE...there are so MANY more people catching crabs that there used to be. I used to love BIG CRABS but can hardly afford them any more.

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It is like gold. It makes sense for more people to get into crabbing because they can be sold for so much more. As they become more and more scarce, expect more and more over fishing.

Remember the moratorium on striped bass, well they should put one on crabbing, but the watermen would have a cow since that is their livelihood. Surprised the moratorium on striped bass was passed, but that seemed to help the resource a bunch.

Let's also not forget that the world population is growing by leaps and bounds. I believe it was 4 billion when I was a kid and now we are looking at something around 7 billion. The food supply, especially in the wild, just cannot keep up.

Heck, just came up with a great idea. Allow the sale of wild venison and that might cure the deer overpopulation problem that we have in a lot of counties in this state.

What is really irritating is when I go with a buddy of mine to be his DD, when he goes fishing. I have a license, but when I am DD, I don't do any fishing at all and I stay at least 10 feet from the rods. I have had DNR walk up ad question me mercilessly, to the point that I politely told the officer to back off. Yet every time I get the 5th degree, the DNR officer ignores all the undocumented fisher-people, that are taking everything home that they can pull out of the water. DNR just ignores them and gives them a free pass for anything they want to do.

Pisses me off to no end.