Sig M11-A1: A P228 By Any Other Name?

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  • Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,531
    h34VwFv.jpg


    During the late 80's and early 90's, the bulk of my collection consisted of N-Frame S&W revolvers and Sig P-series pistols. The S&W's I used for hunting and IHMSA competition; the Sigs, for bowling pins, home defense, carry and general range fun. I had a couple of P220's, P226's and a police surplus P6 that I got pretty cheap.

    I always appreciated my Sig pistols for their accuracy and reliability and because, back then, almost nobody gave them a second thought. They mainly appealed to geeks, like me. Most people I knew were instantly turned-off by their all-business, stamped-metal Teutonic industrial design and Sig Sauer wasn't exactly the household name that it is today, either. Prices on them were still pretty reasonable.

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    When the P228 came out in 1988, though, it was a game-changer. Sigarms Inc. went from being a company that almost no one had heard of or cared about in the USA to becoming an overnight sensation and prices dramatically increased on their entire product line thru the late 1980's and early 1990's. The P228's success was probably one of the reasons Sig invested millions into building a North American manufacturing facility in Exeter, NH. Everybody I knew wanted a P228 and after being a day late and a dollar short several times, I finally got my hands one one and paid for it dearly.

    But just like my tastes in food, music, politics and cars change over the years so do my preferences in things I shoot for enjoyment. I go thru my cycle of 1911-crazes, bolt action-rifle obsessions, and Colt revolver-kicks before realizing that what I really enjoy taking to the range the most are the things I'd use to protect myself with in a defensive situation...and how satisfying it is to own something that shoots every bit as well as things that cost me 2-3x more.

    I recently got interested in Sigs again after shooting a friends P226 Legion SAO. That thing really impressed me with how well it performed and I told myself that if Sig ever made a P220 Legion SAO, resistance would be futile.

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    I finally got around to picking-up a P220 Legion SAO last month and it was pretty much everything I expected it would be, performance-wise. It had an excellent trigger, was superbly accurate and ran like a champ. Problem was, the PVD coating flaked-off the front of the frame after just 200 rounds.

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    I didn't even notice it until I went to put in my range bag and I was like, "Uh-oh, how'd that happen?" It isn't even in a spot normally subject to wear aside from holstering. I didn't own a holster for it (yet) but I knew immediately that Sig would be reluctant to approve a warranty claim on that type of damage and that I'd better have solid proof of purchase to back it up. I called Sig the next day and they were pretty cool about it, though. The first rep I spoke with, Stuart, was kind of a tool but he offered to e-mail an RMA shipping label. A week later, I got a call from Mike at Sig Customer Service and after I provided copies of my original sales receipt, credit card receipt and had the seller call him to confirm everything, he offered me several options to consider:

    1) Replace it with a new P220 SAO, ETA: August
    2) Replace it with a new M11-A1, ETA: Immediate + $300 sigsauer.com store credit.
    3) Replace it with a P210, ETA: July
    4) Replace it with a 1911 (not sure which model), ETA: June

    Sig customer service was actually great to deal with. When I asked, "Why can't you just fix MY gun?" they told me that it would take several months longer and they couldn't guarantee an ETA on when it would be ready but, if that's what I wanted to do, they would be happy to do it.

    I chose Option #2. I blew the $300 store credit on ammo and extra mags. I always liked my P228's and thought the M11-A1 was more or less the same but, that's where I was wrong. The M11-A1 is more like a P229 without a rail than a P228 with a fatter grip, better trigger, and milled (vs stamped steel) stainless steel slide. It's a little heavier but, damned if it doesn't shoot every bit as good.

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    I decided to save my 124gr 'Match' ammo for a match (if we ever have one this year!) and use some Federal 115gr FMJ that I had on hand for general plinking fun. That's the first 10 shots at 7 yards at my local indoor range with very dim lighting. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad they've reopened but, I don't think it would kill them to use brighter bulbs on the range. It's all my 61 year-old eyes can do to see my sights in that place.

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    I put up a fresh target and shot another 20 at the same distance with the same ammo. Not bad! I mean, with the exception of the one flyer to the left, that's about as good as I shoot any pistol at 7 yards on an indoor range that needs better lighting.

    I shot another 70 rounds of the 115gr Federal without any issues and was impressed with how well the M11-A1 shot it. My CZ's don't really care for 115gr at all. I always get tighter groups with 124gr. I brought a box of Federal 124gr because I intended to shoot my CZ 75 but, was having so much fun with the Sig M11-A1 I didn't want to switch!

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    And I like to mag-dump every bit as much as anyone so here's 30 rounds at 10 yards (basically) pulling the trigger as fast as I could. Yeah, I need to practice that more. The M11-A1 seems to enjoy it and the SRT trigger makes it all too easy. And for a gun that's factory fresh (build date 5/27/20), the M11-A1's trigger is quite good. SA is probably somewhere between 4-5 lbs. and DA pull around 10 lbs. It has very little take-up and a nice, clean predictable break with some slight creep. I'm probably going to send it to Robert Burke, the Sig Armorer, for some trigger work and other goodies because the gun is definitely a keeper.

    But, is it a P228 by any other name? It really isn't but, it shoots like it is, if that makes any damn sense? I think if you ever owned a P228, the M11-A1 will remind you of it a lot. It's just a little heavier and a little chunkier.
     

    hubbarddanny

    Member
    Oct 4, 2013
    48
    Severn
    actually the M11-A1 is the P229. Its made in Exeter, NH. The P228 (M11) is made in Germany. Sorry...it was bugging me. No offense to you. I work with the M11 and the M11-A1 is different. (sorry for being a douche and nit-picky)
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,531
    actually the M11-A1 is the P229. Its made in Exeter, NH. The P228 (M11) is made in Germany. Sorry...it was bugging me. No offense to you. I work with the M11 and the M11-A1 is different. (sorry for being a douche and nit-picky)

    Thanks! No, I didn't take it that way at all. I know it isn't a P228 but, the rounded trigger guard and dimensions remind me of it in a good way. I'd love to do a side-by-side comparison at the range! :thumbsup:
     

    hubbarddanny

    Member
    Oct 4, 2013
    48
    Severn
    they both shoot similar but the 229 is heavier. The 228 slide is 2 pieces where as the 229 is 1. the 228 had issues with the rollpin breaking and the firing pin and breech face would pivot out of position causing misfires. so the 229 fixed that with a solid slide with an integrated breech face making it slightly more reliable in that respect.
     

    RuralRifleGuy

    Active Member
    Aug 16, 2018
    918
    Queenstown
    My P228 is my favorite 9mm Sig. I’ve debated whether I would get a 9mm P229 or the M11-A1 and I think it’s going to end up being a matter of what is available. They’ve put out some goofy special edition M11-A1s so when I’m ready to buy if they don’t have a Nitron model available I’ll end up with a P229.
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,531
    I have 2 older P228s, one made in Germany and another in W Germany.

    Love them!

    I'm jealous! I wish I still had mine. Unfortunately, divorce, kid's college tuition and life's other problems forced me to sell-off a bunch of my collection during the early 00's and I never was able to replace them.

    they both shoot similar but the 229 is heavier. The 228 slide is 2 pieces where as the 229 is 1. the 228 had issues with the rollpin breaking and the firing pin and breech face would pivot out of position causing misfires. so the 229 fixed that with a solid slide with an integrated breech face making it slightly more reliable in that respect.

    Yep! The P229 is far more robust than the P228 ever was. I think it was a good move on Sig's part to switch to milled slides because it certainly took care of that problem.

    My P228 is my favorite 9mm Sig. I’ve debated whether I would get a 9mm P229 or the M11-A1 and I think it’s going to end up being a matter of what is available. They’ve put out some goofy special edition M11-A1s so when I’m ready to buy if they don’t have a Nitron model available I’ll end up with a P229.

    The P220 was my favorite for the longest time until the P228 came out. The latest run of M11-A1's, like mine, shipped to distributors a couple of weeks ago if you want get one from the same batch as mine. I was a little concerned that QA would take a backseat during the Covid-19 pandemic but, that doesn't appear to be the case.

    I'm heading-out to the range in a couple of hours to put a couple hundred more thru it. ;)
     

    RuralRifleGuy

    Active Member
    Aug 16, 2018
    918
    Queenstown
    The P220 was my favorite for the longest time until the P228 came out. The latest run of M11-A1's, like mine, shipped to distributors a couple of weeks ago if you want get one from the same batch as mine. I was a little concerned that QA would take a backseat during the Covid-19 pandemic but, that doesn't appear to be the case.

    I didn't even think to look for an M11-A1 last weekend when I was ready to make a purchase. The only Sig my LGS had in stock was a P365 and his website had none available from the distributors. If my 9mm Kimber 1911 purchase gets canceled or delayed to the point I cancel it I'm going to have to go find a M11-A1.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,903
    Sun City West, AZ
    If it's a limited purchase the military is ok with buying foreign made stuff. If it's a major contract part of the agreement is the foreign-based company has to produce the product here in the US barring some licensing agreement otherwise. That's why Beretta built a factory here...it was required by the M9 contract. Only the first 5000 M9 pistols were Italian made...all pistols following that were made here. The Italian made M9s were the ones that gave problems with their slides fracturing...they used steel leftover from a French contract rather than what the US contract mandated.

    I'm guessing Sig built their factory in the US for more business and marketing reasons as any US military contracts they might have had were minor comparatively. The business atmosphere for some arms makers in Europe probably wasn't as friendly as here...not that arms makers here are highly favored in some quarters.
     
    Last edited:

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,531
    If it's a limited purchase the military is ok with buying foreign made stuff. If it's a major contract part of the agreement is the foreign-based company has to produce the product here in the US barking some licensing agreement otherwise. That's why Beretta built a factory here...it was required by the M9 contract. Only the first 5000 M9 pistols were Italian made...all pistols following that were made here. The Italian made M9s were the ones that gave problems with their slides fracturing...they used steel leftover from a French contract rather than what the US contract mandated.

    I'm guessing Sig built their factory in the US for more business and marketing reasons as any US military contracts they might have had were minor comparatively. The business atmosphere for some arms makers in Europe probably wasn't as friendly as here...not that arms makers here are highly favored in some quarters.

    That makes sense. Had they won the XM9 trials in 1984, I think we would've seen an even more aggressive expansion of US production. Even though they ultimately lost-out to Beretta, Sig Sauer had firmly established itself and its reputation in the US marketplace.

    As a Sig enthusiast, the first things I noticed were MSRP's increasing by 35-40% on everything they built and less dealer availability overall (because every swingin' richard now wanted one). It was only funny if you weren't trying to find a P228 of your own. Between 1981-1986, I didn't pay much more than $450-500 for either a new P220 or P226. My surplus P6 cost $350. By 1988, they had gone up to $750-800 and you couldn't find a used P6 for sale at any price. And it wasn't gradual, either. It was like prices literally increased overnight. The part that was funny was to see all the same people who had previously dismissed Sigs as 'fugly' and 'cheap-looking' sporting P228's in brand new holsters, like they had been hip to them for years, instead of just weeks.

    I took the M11-A1 back out to the range this morning to see how it shot outside and if its performance with 115gr FMJ was either just a figment of my imagination or if it really did outperform 124gr FMJ. No, it really does shoot the 115 better than the 124. Punisher12b and I met around 9:30 this morning and we put the M11-A1 and his Archon Type B thru the steel plate (mental) torture test from 7-20 yards and the Sig was just dead nuts on everything...but, then, so was the Archon Type B. Switching to 124 didn't seem to make any difference to the Archon (shot a little lower) but, the Sig (again) grouped 115 about an inch tighter than the 124 on freshly painted steel plates at 10-12 yards. It was a pretty noticeable difference.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,903
    Sun City West, AZ
    The Beretta was a political choice. For Italy to allow the US to base Pershing IRBMs there we had to pick their pistol for the bragging rights. That's not to say the Beretta isn't a good pistol but the political considerations won the day for Beretta. That's not the first political considerations have intruded in the procurement process and most likely wasn't the last.

    Officially and on the record the government will deny that's the case but it was the primary motivator behind Beretta receiving the contract.
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,531
    The Beretta was a political choice. For Italy to allow the US to base Pershing IRBMs there we had to pick their pistol for the bragging rights. That's not to say the Beretta isn't a good pistol but the political considerations won the day for Beretta. That's not the first political considerations have intruded in the procurement process and most likely wasn't the last.

    Officially and on the record the government will deny that's the case but it was the primary motivator behind Beretta receiving the contract.

    I totally believe that. IMHO, the P226 was clearly superior and when they announced Beretta had won the contract my first thought was, "there's something else going-on here..." I knew it had to be something more than $ that influenced the decision.
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,531
    My P228 is my favorite 9mm Sig. I’ve debated whether I would get a 9mm P229 or the M11-A1 and I think it’s going to end up being a matter of what is available. They’ve put out some goofy special edition M11-A1s so when I’m ready to buy if they don’t have a Nitron model available I’ll end up with a P229.

    I think the M11-A1 gets overlooked. Sig lists it on their website as a P229 variant and when shoppers see it doesn't have an accessory rail, they just go with a P229 instead. Personally, I'm not a fan of rails.

    Yeah, I saw the the M11-A1 Sig built with the funky OD green frame. LOL Let's hope that was a limited run. :lol2:
     

    Oswaldo87

    Active Member
    Feb 1, 2020
    151
    Frederick County
    I picked up a new old stock M11A1 off gunbroker around 2013-2014. Didn’t pay much attention to the serial number, but saw one at either Palmetto State Armory or Gander Mountain in Charleston and noticed it’s serial number. I don’t know how many prefixes Sig went through on them but both had the same. Except mine was a 2 digit number and the store one was in the higher 4 digits. Makes me think I have a very low serial.
    Anyway had to brag a small bit. I absolutely love mine.
     

    RuralRifleGuy

    Active Member
    Aug 16, 2018
    918
    Queenstown
    I think the M11-A1 gets overlooked. Sig lists it on their website as a P229 variant and when shoppers see it doesn't have an accessory rail, they just go with a P229 instead. Personally, I'm not a fan of rails.

    Yeah, I saw the the M11-A1 Sig built with the funky OD green frame. LOL Let's hope that was a limited run. :lol2:

    They had a blue one as well but neither are on their website anymore so hopefully they start disappearing from dealers and stick to Gunbroker and used listings. Ended up canceling my 1911 after reading some very recent very bad reviews of the online dealer I had ordered from, didn’t want to take the risk. Will be looking for an M11-A1 from a local shop once they refund my money.
     

    DontTreadOnMe

    Active Member
    Dec 10, 2016
    638
    Nice gun. I have not shot the P228 but I do like the P229 quite a bit. The P229 Classic Carry TALO Edition is a great buy with G10 wraparound grips and no rail. It uses 13-round mags.
     

    Czechnologist

    Concerned Citizen
    Mar 9, 2016
    6,531
    I picked up a new old stock M11A1 off gunbroker around 2013-2014. Didn’t pay much attention to the serial number, but saw one at either Palmetto State Armory or Gander Mountain in Charleston and noticed it’s serial number. I don’t know how many prefixes Sig went through on them but both had the same. Except mine was a 2 digit number and the store one was in the higher 4 digits. Makes me think I have a very low serial.

    Anyway had to brag a small bit. I absolutely love mine.

    Or, it could be a separate run they made just for Gander Mountain. It's hard to say. If you got yours in 2013-2014, though, you got one of the early ones for sure.

    I'm glad to hear that you like yours. I snagged one of the first P229's for sale in my area in 1992. Back then, they only came in .40 and I didn't like it at all. I kept hoping it would grow on me because everybody and their brother back then was touting .40 S&W as the greatest thing since sliced bread and it just...wasn't for me. It's the only Sig pistol I ever sold without any regrets whatsoever.

    They had a blue one as well but neither are on their website anymore so hopefully they start disappearing from dealers and stick to Gunbroker and used listings. Ended up canceling my 1911 after reading some very recent very bad reviews of the online dealer I had ordered from, didn’t want to take the risk. Will be looking for an M11-A1 from a local shop once they refund my money.

    Blue??? Gawd, I'm afraid to even look that one up. According to Sig, the batch mine was made in shipped to distributors on June 1st. No idea how many they built but, I can give mine a big thumbs-up in the QC department after 250 rounds. I'd be glad to reach-out directly to Sig customer service to help you find one in Nitron finish, whenever you're ready.

    Nice gun. I have not shot the P228 but I do like the P229 quite a bit. The P229 Classic Carry TALO Edition is a great buy with G10 wraparound grips and no rail. It uses 13-round mags.

    Thanks. The P229 has an odd history in that it started out as a completely separate model that Sig merged the P228 into. I mean, the first five or six years of the M11-A1's production Sig stuck P228 grips on them. I like P229's in 9mm more than I like P226's but, P228's are pure nostalgia. I fondly recall giving metric tons of shit to all the people I knew who had dismissed Sigs as 'fugly' and 'cheap-looking' and suddenly, out of nowhere, 75% of them were sporting new holsters with P228's in them and acting like they'd been hip to Sig pistols all along. I didn't slap any of them but, man, I sure fantasized about it.
     

    DontTreadOnMe

    Active Member
    Dec 10, 2016
    638
    The 13-round mags for the 229 Classic Carry are listed as “228/229.” Is that the older 228 that used the 13-round mags? Does the M11-A1 use 15-round mags?

    Some of Sig’s numbering seems a little wonky.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,575
    Glen Burnie
    The 13-round mags for the 229 Classic Carry are listed as “228/229.” Is that the older 228 that used the 13-round mags? Does the M11-A1 use 15-round mags?

    Some of Sig’s numbering seems a little wonky.

    They have 13 round mags for the 229? All of mine were 12.
     

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