Can a Firearm in DC be Grandfathered in?

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  • defygravity

    Active Member
    May 5, 2012
    808
    Baltimore County
    Question, as I can't seem to get a consistent answer from the DC Police:

    My uncle was given a shotgun for his college graduation in the 60's. He lived in the apartment he currently occupies, and hasn't left (rent controlled). He still has that shotgun in his closet.

    Does he need to register that firearm with the DC police? Or is it old enough that it wouldn't matter? Or, if DC changed their laws, does anyone know if there was a grandfathering clause in there?

    Can't get a good read on this one, so we moved it up to my safe here in MD for the time being. He's starting to want it back because of the unrest, and I wanna make sure if he has to use it that it was possessed legally.

    Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks!

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     

    bigmanindc

    Active Member
    Nov 3, 2018
    463
    DMV
    Question, as I can't seem to get a consistent answer from the DC Police:

    My uncle was given a shotgun for his college graduation in the 60's. He lived in the apartment he currently occupies, and hasn't left (rent controlled). He still has that shotgun in his closet.

    Does he need to register that firearm with the DC police? Or is it old enough that it wouldn't matter? Or, if DC changed their laws, does anyone know if there was a grandfathering clause in there?

    Can't get a good read on this one, so we moved it up to my safe here in MD for the time being. He's starting to want it back because of the unrest, and I wanna make sure if he has to use it that it was possessed legally.

    Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks folks!

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_Control_Regulations_Act_of_1975
     

    jbrown50

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 18, 2014
    3,471
    DC
    All firearms in DC have to be registered.

    I’d simply call DC Police Gun Registration on Monday after 9:00 am at 202-727-4275 and talk to Lt. Hall or Ofc. Mills. Tell them that your uncle bought the shotgun legally as a DC resident back in the 60s and you’d like for them to check in the system for the registration information. It’s very unlikely to be there because their record keeping back then was questionable.
     

    defygravity

    Active Member
    May 5, 2012
    808
    Baltimore County
    All firearms in DC have to be registered.

    I’d simply call DC Police Gun Registration on Monday after 9:00 am at 202-727-4275 and talk to Lt. Hall or Ofc. Mills. Tell them that your uncle bought the shotgun legally as a DC resident back in the 60s and you’d like for them to check in the system for the registration information. It’s very unlikely to be there because their record keeping back then was questionable.
    Awesome information, thank you! I'm assuming if it's not in there he would need to register it?

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    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    Always remember, registration makes confiscation possible. He's had it for decades with no trouble but now it's time to ask for trouble...? I am NOT a lawyer!
     

    defygravity

    Active Member
    May 5, 2012
    808
    Baltimore County
    Always remember, registration makes confiscation possible. He's had it for decades with no trouble but now it's time to ask for trouble...? I am NOT a lawyer!
    It does, but it's also illegal. If he has to use it, he'll be in a world of hurt if the city doesn't know about it. Just want to make sure dude avoids jail time.

    This is a good idea though, and you make a good point. It's worth some thought...

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    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Can't get a good read on this one, so we moved it up to my safe here in MD for the time being. He's starting to want it back because of the unrest, and I wanna make sure if he has to use it that it was possessed legally.

    As others have mentioned, DC does not have the records from the 1960's (nor do most jurisdictions) , so they would not know if it were not, your or your grandfathers jeopardy in "reregistering" it is low.

    I also don't think it is in MPP's interest in jamming people up/putting them in legal jeopardy, for (re) registering in your grandfathers type of situation since doing so would retard rather than increase people registering registerable and possessable guns.

    There is probably some case law saying your grandfather needs to have his paperwork and the city not having records that far back is not a complete defense, but I seriously doubt that would be invoked if you expressed a desire to get all the paperwork in order.

    So look at pros and cons of your three options:

    1) keep it in Maryland. I wont comment on that as it is family dynamics.

    2) take it back into DC and keep it unregistered: If you move or participate in moving it to DC, not only is your grandfather in jeopardy but you would also be for being party to it going to DC whiteout being registered.

    Your grandfather could say the wrong thing and inadvertently incriminate himself and/or you for moving the gun to DC. that risk would always be present. For example if you have other cousins who might think he should not have a gun, a cleaning person or health care assistant who might find it, what would happen if it were stolen in DC while unregistered, how close to senility your grandfather is (and we all get closer every day)etc etc.

    I would avoid #2

    3) get it registered.
    The biggest PITA is going to be time. If this were two years ago this would take you a couple of hours,$38, and your grandfather would be walking out with his registration card. He would have had to simply take the 30 minute online safety course and test beforehand at home (essentially: "what end of the gun does the bullet come out of") and go in with no appointment with his serial number, ID, proof of residence and probably walk out an hour later with his card, or have it mailed within days.
    Nowadays with the mess down at that office you will probably need to make an appointment 30 days out. but otherwise it is going to be the same.

    BTW, don't overshare information with MPD. there is no need to share that you brought the gun out since that an admission you possessed it for some time in DC. Rather you would say:
    it was registered a very long time ago but there is no paperwork now. it is now in Maryland. He wants it back in DC.

    As others have mentioned I would get up with Lt Hall, Sgt Harrison or Officer Mills. Most of the rest of that office is clueless and surly. Again do NOT mention you moved it or when, just that he had it registered in DC in the 1960's in DC, And that you want to get the paperwork in order for your grandfather to again poessess it in DC.
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Wonder who may have those lolol
    Well the carry licenses between 214 palmer ("no issue" to "may issue") and Wrenn/Grace 2017 were never audited to see who was connected or not, and probably like NYC included connected people, the AR15 registrants were people on our side who jumped in a very short time opening in the law.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Probably ? Ha ! Make that Most . The question was to what degree mostly business connected vs purely political , and a few private detectives .

    But yes , there were a handful of people who continued to renew after DC catagorically refused to issue . Of course after 40 plus years many of them had died off .
     

    rascal

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 15, 2013
    1,253
    Probably ? Ha ! Make that Most . The question was to what degree mostly business connected vs purely political , and a few private detectives .

    But yes , there were a handful of people who continued to renew after DC catagorically refused to issue . Of course after 40 plus years many of them had died off .

    on gun registrations do we know what the long gun renewal requirement was 1975-2008? or if pre 1975 long guns required renewals?

    If there was a renewal requirement I suppose they could turn around lack of records from being a MPD responsibility to that of the registrant.

    IE you say your gun was registered, and
    a) MPD simply has no records making it their fault, vs
    b) a renewal requirement meaning it is on you to have the paperwork from at most three years ago.

    What I know I am a DC resident, and that while I bought most of my guns new while a resident here going though FFL in DC for handgun and Virginia for long gun; I did bring in two guns, while a resident of DC that I essentially already owned. One a pistol my out of state grandfather, who had bought it in 1960's, willed to me in the 1990s and which my grandmother kept until a few years after Heller when she died.

    there was no paperwork and calls to my grandfather's town police, which granted pistol licenses in the 1960's, and to the state police, which took over licensing some point later, had any records.

    DC MPD firearms unit was fine with that. I did not have to give any paperwork on prior provenance, nor go through Charlie Sykes. I gave them the serial number which established my intent to register it and made it legal to posses and transport to DC unregistered for two days. Drove it down on a Sunday and registered it on Monday.

    I do think you would not want to bring a gun in like that now, but rather get the card first, since now there is this weird situation with 48 or 72 hours maximum possession in DC while awaiting intended registration, and this 30 days to even get an appointment.

    As far as NYC and carry permits, I know two people with carry licenses in NY. I've worked for both of them and they are not just rich and powerful but major campaign contributors. I believe the NYC permit holders were published publicly and that list was hilarious 20% PIs and 80% major donors.
     

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