The final SB 281: A detailed summary for non-lawyers

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  • erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,886
    Rockville, MD
    This may be a stupid question, and I'm sorry if so, but is there anyplace where the term "copy" in regards to the now pending "banned" list is defined? For instance, a "Bushmaster semi automatic" would be unnecessary if "AR-15 and all copies regardless of manufacturer" covered, say, an XM-15. The reason I ask is that if you take, for example, Windham's Varmint rifle with a heavy barrel and no flash or comp with a skeletonized stock, you'd actually have zero of the characteristics.
    The named assault long guns list is its own ban list. You could pass the copycat test with flying colors, as all AR-15s do, and still be banned because you're on the named list.

    Also, anyone know if a comp is considered the same as a flash suppressor? They do completely different things, the law is written for "directing flash", but a comp isn't for flash.
    It has to direct it out of your field of view. I'm unaware of any comp or brake which can do that. Your FOV is huge, and it would take one hell of a brake to pull that stunt off.
     

    KL1

    Member
    Feb 6, 2013
    85
    Northern MoCo
    I don't know exactly, but certainly "possession" is much broader than ownership. That's why current law has language to allow temporary possession of a handgun by a minor under certain circumstances. (See page 39.) I believe that "possession" is what they had in mind.

    I don't know either, but I think the language is vague. In some places the use of "possession" seems to clearly imply ownership, since it also refers in the same clause to registration or having a purchase order, etc. And in others, like the section you cited, it seems to indicate simply having the item in your hands. Hopefully common sense would prevail, otherwise simply picking up someone else's 20-round magazine could be a crime, but I'd rather not rely on the common sense of police or prosecutors.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    This. And is a flash suppressor treated the same as a muzzle brake. If not. ..wow.

    Also, anyone know if a comp is considered the same as a flash suppressor? They do completely different things, the law is written for "directing flash", but a comp isn't for flash.

    From SB 281, page 11:

    (G) "FLASH SUPPRESSOR" MEANS A DEVICE THAT FUNCTIONS, OR IS INTENDED TO FUNCTION, TO PERCEPTIBLY REDUCE OR REDIRECT MUZZLE FLASH FROM THE SHOOTER’S FIELD OF VISION.
    So, for any given device, presumably the regulatory questions will be (1) is it intended to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision (whether or not it does so efficiently), or if it is not so intended, (2) does it function so as to do so?
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,466
    Westminster USA
    If you are going to the range and you are pulled over for a busted taillight and your car is searched and firearms are found, what happens next?
    Our Po Po's will chime in I'm sure but if your firearms are locked in the trunk (if you have a trunk) politely decline any request to search. If no trunk locked in a case in your vrhicle LE needs RAS or PC to institute a non consensual detention and you can decline a request to search your vehicle. The officer has the right to do a pat down of your person if he suspects you could be armed and a crime might be afoot.
     

    Jimbob2.0

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 20, 2008
    16,600
    So if I read this right those of us who had regulated firearms, including handguns need to get the license so they have their revenue and be fingerprinted?

    Thats going to go over great..............
     

    madness3120

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 4, 2012
    840
    This has been my concern from day one and nobody, but nobody wants to talk about. Not Cops. Not Delegates. Not Senators. Nobody!!!

    If you are going to the range and you are pulled over for a busted taillight and your car is searched and firearms are found, what happens next?

    Who will bear the burden of proof? Do you really think your average cop is well versed enough in firearms and firearms law to determine if your LEGAL firearms are pre 281 vs. post 281. This is not a shot at cops so please don't take it that way. There is no way a cop can look at a so-called assault rifle and tell if it is pre 281 or post 281 and he sure as hell won't be taking your word for it.

    My thoughts on this are simple. The burden of proof will be squarely on the gun owner. Make no mistake about. You will be guilty until you can prove yourself not guilty.

    This, quite frankly, scares the hell out me and it should scare the hell out of you too. If some cowboy or cowgirl, again, not all cops, wants to make a name for himself or herself, you're $hit-out-of-luck a$$ is go'in to the pokie and you will NEVER see your guns again.

    Maybe the rest of you can enlighten me on the subject.

    Scott

    Run the serial #?
     

    M4MD

    Member
    Sep 14, 2012
    24
    I might have missed it in this thread, but can someone clarify whether or not having a Form 1 or Form 4 submitted will meet the "existing purchase order" requirement?

    I have a Form 1 sitting in front of me that I need to mail, but it likely won't be approved until after 10/1 based on current wait times.

    Any issues with suppressors on a Form 4 when this goes into effect? Will they be a no go after 10/1 and if so, should I get the process started now for any class 3 stuff I need/want?
     

    Second Amendment

    Ultimate Member
    May 11, 2011
    8,665
    So if I read this right those of us who had regulated firearms, including handguns need to get the license so they have their revenue and be fingerprinted?

    Thats going to go over great..............


    For new regulated purchases, not for existing ones.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,886
    Rockville, MD
    So if I read this right those of us who had regulated firearms, including handguns need to get the license so they have their revenue and be fingerprinted?
    You read it wrong. You only need the license for new handguns.

    I might have missed it in this thread, but can someone clarify whether or not having a Form 1 or Form 4 submitted will meet the "existing purchase order" requirement?
    A form 1 is permission to manufacture. There's no way it would be interpreted as a purchase order, because it's not. You'd probably be OK for a form 4 as that's actually a transfer/purchase.

    I have a Form 1 sitting in front of me that I need to mail, but it likely won't be approved until after 10/1 based on current wait times.
    No one's 100% sure how that's going to work. There is still some debate as to whether this bill really covers SBRs and SBSs or not, because Maryland code seems to differentiate between the two.

    Any issues with suppressors on a Form 4 when this goes into effect? Will they be a no go after 10/1 and if so, should I get the process started now for any class 3 stuff I need/want?
    Suppressors are flash hiders. They are not explicitly banned in any way. You may be constrained as to what post-ban rifles you can mount them on (ie, if it has a folding stock or grenade launcher already, no go).
     

    M4MD

    Member
    Sep 14, 2012
    24
    You read it wrong. You only need the license for new handguns.


    A form 1 is permission to manufacture. There's no way it would be interpreted as a purchase order, because it's not. You'd probably be OK for a form 4 as that's actually a transfer/purchase.


    No one's 100% sure how that's going to work. There is still some debate as to whether this bill really covers SBRs and SBSs or not, because Maryland code seems to differentiate between the two.


    Suppressors are flash hiders. They are not explicitly banned in any way. You may be constrained as to what post-ban rifles you can mount them on (ie, if it has a folding stock or grenade launcher already, no go).

    So a suppressor on a legally possessed regulated firearm should be ok? My Form 1 though, maybe approved and legit or maybe not but no one knows? Great.
     

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,285
    nobody knows yet how the "purchase order" thing will shake out

    problem is, elsewhere in the law the dealer is not allowed to possess it after the effective date either unless they possessed it before 10/1

    so even though you are allowed to buy it, they are not allowed to possess it if it comes in after 10/1

    go figure...
     

    Jimbob2.0

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 20, 2008
    16,600
    You read it wrong. You only need the license for new handguns.


    A form 1 is permission to manufacture. There's no way it would be interpreted as a purchase order, because it's not. You'd probably be OK for a form 4 as that's actually a transfer/purchase.


    No one's 100% sure how that's going to work. There is still some debate as to whether this bill really covers SBRs and SBSs or not, because Maryland code seems to differentiate between the two.


    Suppressors are flash hiders. They are not explicitly banned in any way. You may be constrained as to what post-ban rifles you can mount them on (ie, if it has a folding stock or grenade launcher already, no go).

    So the bastards get their revenue, I guess given they have a record of my regulated purchase and they dont fingerprint you it I guess it doesnt matter giving them a little money. They already know where they are for the inevitable round-up.
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    Hello Madness3120,

    A grandfathered so-called assault weapon's serial number won't be in their data base.

    This is what I'm talking about. They just want to make it as difficult on us as they can. They want us to get so frustrated that we throw our guns and ammo into the nearest river. Wait! That's not a bad idea. Start a gun recovery salvage business. Would the SCUBA diver need a QUALIFICATION LICENSE before he picked it up off the river bottom? Would that be possession? Would that be grounds to cut off his air supply post-haste? Would reduce court costs. No trial.

    This is enough to drive you F***ing NUTS.

    Scott
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,466
    Westminster USA
    Hello Madness3120,

    A grandfathered so-called assault weapon's serial number won't be in their data base.

    If it was a regulated weapon purchased before 10/1 it was reported on the MSP 77R so they will certainly have a record of it. Hence no need to reregister as I understand it.
     

    Waz

    SHAZAM!!!
    Dec 15, 2012
    693
    Glen Burnie-ish
    6. See pages 11-12: A semiautomatic shotgun will be banned as an assault/copycat weapon if it has either a folding stock or a revolving cylinder.


    sorry, i'm a slow reader...:o

    i thought this previously said "pump shotguns" as well. was that editted/corrected or was i seeing things?

    i couldn't find anything contrary in the bill so pump action shotgun do not fall under the same scutiny as semi-auto's, correct?

    i can keep my folding stock and forward pistol grip on my maverick 88... or if i decided to get a new mossberg 500 after oct 1 i could install/mount these features to the new pump shotgun?
     

    JAY1234

    Retired Radioman Chief
    Dec 1, 2012
    731
    St Marys County Maryland
    This has been my concern from day one and nobody, but nobody wants to talk about. Not Cops. Not Delegates. Not Senators. Nobody!!!

    If you are going to the range and you are pulled over for a busted taillight and your car is searched and firearms are found, what happens next?

    Who will bear the burden of proof? Do you really think your average cop is well versed enough in firearms and firearms law to determine if your LEGAL firearms are pre 281 vs. post 281. This is not a shot at cops so please don't take it that way. There is no way a cop can look at a so-called assault rifle and tell if it is pre 281 or post 281 and he sure as hell won't be taking your word for it.

    My thoughts on this are simple. The burden of proof will be squarely on the gun owner. Make no mistake about. You will be guilty until you can prove yourself not guilty.

    This, quite frankly, scares the hell out me and it should scare the hell out of you too. If some cowboy or cowgirl, again, not all cops, wants to make a name for himself or herself, you're $hit-out-of-luck a$$ is go'in to the pokie and you will NEVER see your guns again.

    Maybe the rest of you can enlighten me on the subject.

    Scott

    I have photos and receipts documenting when my regulated and non-regulated firearms were purchased and where. I also have my MD designated collector approval letter. All of these documentations are in my vehicle at all times (now that the anti gun people have been successful in raping us gun owners).

    I also have firearms (shotguns/30-30/22 auto) that my son gave to me. I have certified and notarized paperwork attesting to the legal transfer. These are also in my vehicle. If I get pulled over while legally transporting firearms and none of this paperwork is good enough for the officer, I guess it will be proof that this part of the legislated bill has some work to be done on it. From my reading, a lot of the new laws are ambiguous.

    I also have made sure that my hand guns and long guns have appropriate, lockable carriers that are locked at all times while traveling.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    i thought this previously said "pump shotguns" as well. was that editted/corrected or was i seeing things?...i can keep my folding stock and forward pistol grip on my maverick 88... or if i decided to get a new mossberg 500 after oct 1 i could install/mount these features to the new pump shotgun?

    You were seeing things -- it was not corrected. The banned "assault"/"copycat" firearms, by definition, are all semi-auto.
     

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