MSP Appeals to the Office of Administrative Hearings

eruby · Feb 19, 2019

MSP sop:

EdHershon · Feb 19, 2019

Occam said:
Well the hell with that. Of course I wanted to be able carry for practical self-defense reasons, but a major motivation to go through the onerous process and then through the board was the principle of the thing. And this just makes that even more important. The need (no offense, Ed H et al!) to pay an attorney to exercise a constitutionally protected right is infuriating, but do we have a choice? Letting them shut people down is just rewarding Frosh for his holier than thou posture. What this needs, until there is some sort of relief in court, is well put together social/media documentary coverage, with parallel coverage of individual stories just miles away in PA, VA, and WV. Alas, most of us would personally hate the public scrutiny and noise that would come with publicly documenting all that we have to go through, and of course Frosh knows that, too.

No offense taken at all. I understand this and this is one of the reasons why I try to keep my rates lower than my competition as well as the fact, that I believe that good, hardworking people should not have to ask permission from the government to protect themselves from harm that may befall them.

I find that most people in Maryland do not understand what can happen to them and their first reaction is to call the police. That is great, but by the time the police come, the crime has already taken place. If you are lucky, you are physically alright. But if someone intends to do you harm, why should you not be able to defend yourself?

If anyone has any questions regarding the processes involved here, please reach out to me by PM.

Straightshooter · Feb 19, 2019

If I ever get my day before the HGPRB and then end up in front of an ALJ, Ed is my second choice for representation. I'm still searching for contact info for Raymond Redington.

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welder516 · Feb 19, 2019

I see no other way then to fight , as a friend of mine said and IP here . We have to do it for the gun community , somebody has to go first might as well be me .

eruby · Feb 19, 2019

welder516 said:
I see no other way then to fight , as a friend of mine said and IP here . We have to do it for the gun community , somebody has to go first might as well be me .

Tareyton smokers approve

welder516 · Feb 19, 2019

eruby said:
Tareyton smokers approve

I am glad there is a Google Fu Machine :lol2:

Sundazes · Feb 19, 2019

Straightshooter said:
If I ever get my day before the HGPRB and then end up in front of an ALJ, Ed is my second choice for representation. I'm still searching for contact info for Raymond Redington.

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I would think twice about that though, he is still in the pokey.

Stoveman · Feb 19, 2019

Schipperke said:
Sec. 29.03.02.08. Issuance and Denial, see "D"

And it's still their burden to show why the Secretary, through his designees, chose to issue a restriction. The statute doesn't say that all permits will be restricted.

BeoBill · Feb 19, 2019

My greatest fear is that the geniuses in Annapolis will get away with shutting down the HPRB, making the appeal path the mercy of an ALJ who may or may not know/care what the actual law says, and to the circuit court after that. That would essentially remove civilian oversight from the process, and give the MSP LD carte blanc to issue denials and restrictions. Because everybody can afford legal representation, ya know...

Schipperke · Feb 19, 2019

MSP meets their burden right in the statute. It speaks for itself, but if some want to try embellishing it and swing with that, give it a try. Not seeing any caveats they can't do exactly how it reads.

D. The Secretary may limit the geographic area, circumstances, or times of the day, week, month, or year in which a permit is valid or effective.

PJDiesel · Feb 19, 2019

"May" has been interpreted as SHALL in this case.

Schipperke · Feb 19, 2019

PJDiesel said:
"May" has been interpreted as SHALL in this case.

Good attorney could argue the word "may" in that context as an imperative. Don't think they need to go there though.

Mike OTDP · Feb 19, 2019

Schipperke said:
Good attorney could argue the word "may" in that context as an imperative.

I wouldn't. "Shall" is imperative. "May" is not.

BeoBill · Feb 20, 2019

And that word in that phrase makes it next to impossible for the unprivileged and unconnected to petition the Crown for permission to exercise their God-given civil right to self defense.

PJDiesel · Feb 20, 2019

I would venture say (in legal terms) one could "May" 100% of the time so long as they're still afforded the option to do something other than what the action is.

In this case meaning, ........placing restrictions 100% of the time is perfectly legal with no explanation or excuse required.

GTOGUNNER · Feb 20, 2019

Ok, what time is my restriction? When I decide or someone else. That is easy to defeat. If it can't be defined, it is not enforceable.

welder516 · Feb 20, 2019

GTOGUNNER said:
Ok, what time is my restriction? When I decide or someone else. That is easy to defeat. If it can't be defined, it is not enforceable.

At OAH a MSP said I am the expert in knowing when I am working , which brings me to the point there are no restrictions on my permit .

Then they say there are restrictions , can't have it both ways . It is 100% not enforceable IMHO .
I can always have a reason to carry when I walk down the street or drive down the road .
Tell me if my brothers and I have an exercise program for work and we get incentives to lose weight . Is then walking and hiking not included in business . If we are healthy we are good business owners . :thumbsup:

Straightshooter · Feb 20, 2019

welder516 said:
At OAH a MSP said I am the expert in knowing when I am working , which brings me to the point there are no restrictions on my permit .

Then they say there are restrictions , can't have it both ways . It is 100% not enforceable IMHO .

I can always have a reason to carry when I walk down the street or drive down the road .

Tell me if my brothers and I have an exercise program for work and we get incentives to lose weight . Is then walking and hiking not included in business . If we are healthy we are good business owners .

At least the ALJ is getting to hear this drivel. Hopefully, they will get tired of the MSP's BS in short order.

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Matlack · Feb 20, 2019

Have any of these come before the OAH yet? Outcomes?

welder516 · Feb 20, 2019

Straightshooter said:
At least the ALJ is getting to hear this drivel. Hopefully, they will get tired of the MSP's BS in short order.

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From your lips to Gods ears .

MSP Appeals to the Office of Administrative Hearings

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