current ATF wait time

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  • ST19AG_WGreymon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 16, 2009
    2,407
    Odenton
    Was it SilencerShop?

    I’ve ordered several suppressors through SilencerShop and was happy with their process, if not the 8-11 month wait.

    I’m still not sure their E-service makes any sense for me. I’d done ATF eForms for a trust pre-41F, and just last month under the new regime with Responsible Person forms, photos and prints. Once I made myself a set of scanned prints and can crank them out on blue cards, eForms is the way to go.

    There were a bunch of people that used Silencer Shop's Form 1 service that are now at a 60+ day wait for unknown reasons, the ATF has stated they are waiting on word from higher up on what to do with them and SS has remained silent.

    I submitted my eForm the regular way and was approved in 26 days.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    My dealer emailed me to let me know that the stamp just showed up for a TurboK I ordered in December. Will be curious to see when it was actually approved.
    The answer is that it was approved on 09 June. So about 174 days from check cashed to approved, adding about 3 weeks on both ends to account for time of purchase to stamp received. 7ish months total. Pretty atrocious conceptually, but I had no plans to start calling the ATF to check until October. Good job exceeding my extraordinarily low expectations I guess?
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,376
    Timonium-Lutherville
    Just submitted an E form 1 and getting prints this afternoon. Do I need to forward the copy of the submitted Form 1 that was emailed to me to MSP CLEO? There wasn't any specific instructions requesting that I do that. I recall my FFL doing it for a Form 4 I had last year.
     

    ST19AG_WGreymon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 16, 2009
    2,407
    Odenton
    Just submitted an E form 1 and getting prints this afternoon. Do I need to forward the copy of the submitted Form 1 that was emailed to me to MSP CLEO? There wasn't any specific instructions requesting that I do that. I recall my FFL doing it for a Form 4 I had last year.

    You need to send the CLEO-marked pages from the copy that was sent to your e-mail.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,395
    Montgomery County
    Word on the street is that the ATF is disapproving most if not all Silencer Shop Form 1s. Sad to hear.

    Good grief. What happens then? Does SS rework things to get around whatever got screwed up, or does the applicant get a refund ... ? So many ways for that to suck for months at a time.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,395
    Montgomery County
    Yup. Just checked with the ATF portal, and they moved the Form 1 into "disapproved," with this tacked onto the bottom:
     

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    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,994
    Political refugee in WV
    Good grief. What happens then? Does SS rework things to get around whatever got screwed up, or does the applicant get a refund ... ? So many ways for that to suck for months at a time.
    You get a refund, then you go and do what a few of us told you to do. You were screwed because you wanted convenience, instead of doing it the way the ATF says you have to do it. Unfortunately you have nobody to blame but yourself for using Silencer Shop to do the submission for you. Harsh lesson to be learned.

    You'll see your refund in a few weeks.

    Don't feel all that bad. Carol fvcking Ripley denied my SBR app 3 times before answering the most basic fvcking question about how to correctly file for a SBR. And where the issue was with my app.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,994
    Political refugee in WV
    Well, yeah. And it was offered to me by people who nicely and painlessly handled my previous can purchase, prints and all. So I didn't have my radar on.



    Have already submitted the new form. We'll see what happens.
    I'm not ragging on you, I had to learn a similar lesson from a less than acceptable CS person. It's just a lesson learned is all.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,395
    Montgomery County
    I'm not ragging on you, I had to learn a similar lesson from a less than acceptable CS person. It's just a lesson learned is all.

    You know what's really annoying? Not that SS took whatever info they thought they had right and submitted the application. No, it's that it took ATF three months to disapprove it. FFS, people, really? If that's your policy, then act on it! The front line people there said they were waiting on upper management to decide on this, for months. So whatever entrenched bureaucrat has that judgement call sitting on his desk for three months is the person I'm actually pissed at.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,994
    Political refugee in WV
    You know what's really annoying? Not that SS took whatever info they thought they had right and submitted the application. No, it's that it took ATF three months to disapprove it. FFS, people, really? If that's your policy, then act on it! The front line people there said they were waiting on upper management to decide on this, for months. So whatever entrenched bureaucrat has that judgement call sitting on his desk for three months is the person I'm actually pissed at.
    I think it comes down to upper management trying to decide if SS can file a Form 1 on somebody's behalf and then when they see how many there are, they dropped the hammer and said "NO!" because SS isn't actually the manufacturer of the items.

    If you look at a Form 1, you'll see it at the name and address of the manufacturer and that only the manufacturer can submit it.
     

    ST19AG_WGreymon

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 16, 2009
    2,407
    Odenton

    FHJ69

    Active Member
    Mar 13, 2011
    458
    Upper PDRMC
    Sorry to hear that. FWIW I roll my own fingerprints with this pad from Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Inkless-FingerPrint-Pad-S03027/dp/B001HA4PJ4/

    And order the fingerprint cards for free from the ATF:

    https://www.atf.gov/distribution-center-order-form

    It'll save you some cash and the trip to get prints done.

    This ^^^^^^ I ordered my ink, 50 forms and form holder from Amazon (yes Amazon sells packs of cards, I got 50, who knew?) for less than $35.00. I am a believer in roll your own. If anyone needs assistance I'm game.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,728
    You know what's really annoying? Not that SS took whatever info they thought they had right and submitted the application. No, it's that it took ATF three months to disapprove it. FFS, people, really? If that's your policy, then act on it! The front line people there said they were waiting on upper management to decide on this, for months. So whatever entrenched bureaucrat has that judgement call sitting on his desk for three months is the person I'm actually pissed at.

    I wow long and working in government it likely took a week or two to bubble up enough that they put a work group together to discuss with business unit, policy and legal folks (policy and legal are different groups). Then it likely took a few weeks to has everything out to make sure there wasn’t a way they could work around their requirement that the maker had to be the one submitting it, because could a 3rd party servicing entity be considered a facilitator, etc.

    Probably needed to get some executives from each area briefed up to then tell staff who already made the decision to then go back and disapprove everyone. Also figure out what the consistent message should be. Might have been wrangling if the executives and staff disagreed or different areas or policy and legal disagreed. Etc.

    3 months isn’t really that long in government. A whole heck of a lot more that government has to deal with that business doesn’t. And let’s also admit most large businesses it easily takes months to make decisions on stuff too. It’s smaller businesses that are nimble. Not government or large businesses. Can be a negative though. Nimble also means you can reach a bad decision much faster.

    Not really defending ATF taking that long. Honestly I’d blame SS as much on this one. Sounds like they didn’t discuss with the ATF first if this new business model was going to be kosher or not. It’s possible they did and were told it’s fine and then someone else at the ATF, line an attorney, heard about it and put the kabosh on it and that took 3 months of internal discussions.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    In case anyone was curious, here was what SilencerShop posted on another forum regarding the EForm1 kerfluffle:

    SilencerShop said:
    Hello, everyone. Thank you for your patience regarding recent Form 1 disapprovals. We are able to give you a detailed update on Silencer Shop’s e-Form 1 service and ATF’s decision to disapprove select e-Form 1 applications. We sincerely regret having to deliver such unpleasant news. Make no mistake, Silencer Shop is challenging ATF’s decision. In the meantime, we want to make sure you have the most up-to-date information, and understand how we plan to move forward.

    Nearly two years ago, ATF declared that uploading a signed Form 1 and Power of Attorney in e-Forms was not sufficient to serve as an electronic certification. ATF determined to temporarily disapprove approximately 600 e-Form 1 submissions in process at the time.

    Then, in February 2019, ATF proposed a new process that allowed us to populate the e-Form 1 and hand the account off to the customer for final certification and submission. The 600 temporary disapprovals were resolved and nearly 1,000 e-Form 1’s have since been submitted by Silencer Shop and approved by ATF using that process.

    Earlier this year, due to high demand we decided to offer the service more widely to our customers once again. We submitted a small batch and then had a conference call with ATF to confirm everything was OK. We explained our process clearly. ATF raised no issues or objections. Our submitted forms were being approved, so we submitted a second batch.

    When we realized the processing of some of our submissions was being delayed, we reached out to ATF, asking for an explanation. For two months ATF could not identify any problems with the applications. When we wrote and called, they ensured there was no problem. On May 19, ATF stated they were experiencing “delays due to Covid.” On June 5, ATF stated their NFA division was “overwhelmed” due to the “civil unrest.” More than 2 months later, ATF finally responded. The result: disapproving an unknown number of applications and citing an issue that directly contradicts their prior express, written guidance, without any opportunity to discuss or reconcile amicably.

    We fully intend to challenge this baffling decision; in the meantime, we will continue moving forward with our resolution.

    Beginning this week, your e-Form 1 tax stamp and service fee will be refunded.

    While this does not make up for lost time, we will stay committed to serving you as best we can throughout this process.

    Over the next few days:
    We will begin processing refunds for all impacted e-Form 1 submissions. Please be patient as it may take a few days to complete this process.
    We will be sending all pertinent information relating to your submission, including firearm details, photos, trust, etc. This will be sent via email to all impacted customers.

    If you want to submit a Form 1 to ATF on your own instead of waiting for a resolution:
    As previously mentioned, you will receive everything you need for the submission via email to assist in the process.
    After your submission, expect to receive a coversheet with a barcode from the ATF requesting your fingerprints (this can take several days). If you would like Silencer Shop to provide a new set of fingerprint cards free of charge, please forward the coversheet supplied by ATF to compliance@silencershop.com with the subject “e-Form 1 Coversheet Resubmission.”
    We will let you know when the fingerprint cards and coversheet have been mailed to NFA for your submission.

    If you choose to wait to resubmit until the issue is resolved with ATF:
    We will waive your Form 1 service fee and will pay a portion of the tax stamp for submission of the same item.

    Silencer Shop is dedicated to using our resources to resolve this issue in a way that is best for our customers. Thank you for trusting in us as we navigate these waters. We are communicating everything we can at this time; and, as we can shed more light on this, we will. Silencer Shop is the company that it is because of our customers, and we will continue to do everything in our power to protect your rights.
     

    PainAndGain

    Member
    Dec 22, 2019
    14
    Tax stamp for my suppressor was cashed February 8, 2020. First time using the gun trust my brother and I created and was expecting it to take longer than my last individual can (took 9 months). Picked up my new can July 24, 2020 from United Gun shop in Rockville. Really happy about the turn around time, makes me want to do another ha!
     

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