Reloading Assistance/Service?

I enjoy reloading, and am thinking of providing a reloading “service” to the needy - i.e. those that are interested in high quality ammunition for their target or hunting rifles and do not have the skill or equipment to reload. This would only be for high quality (low volume) rifle ammunition, and ammo could even be produced to determine “tuned loads” for specific rifles. (NO “blasting ammo”!) There are liability concerns that would have to be addressed, but it might work something like this:

Shooter provides: (I may be able to provide SOME of these.)
> brass
> powder
> primers
> bullets
> dies if I do not have dies for that cartridge (I have .223 & 6.5CM dies)

The service would include providing precisely measured powder (Chargemaster modified to increase precision of charges), cleaning, prepping and priming the cases and when ready, the shooter would visit my place (in Cecil Co.), and with assistance, actually add the powder and seat the bullets using single stage equipment. (They would actually be loading their own ammo.) The shooter could bring their rifle for initial throat/bullet seating depth measurement for some cartridges (like 6.5CM).

Now I realize most shooters who do not reload do not have primers, powder or bullets on hand, (they probably have once-fired brass), so it would be up to them to scrounge the marketplace like other reloaders. (Components could be purchased from other reloaders or grey market sellers. Shooters could form groups for group buys etc..)

This would allow shooters to make their own ammo, ammo very likely better tuned to their individual firearm and superior to the currently very expensive commercially available ammo, without incurring the initial cost of reloading equipment and climbing the reloading learning curve. Cost/pricing would be determined on an individual basis, depending on the components provided and level of service. Trade for components (primers/powder/bullets) might also be an option.

This service would be available on a very limited basis to serious shooters only.

This is NOT a sales pitch. This post is to gauge interest and feasability only. Please do not PM with requests. If this is something that looks viable, I’ll post this in the “Marketplace – For Sale or Trade” section.

If you are the one pulling the lever, the ATF would consider it commercial manufacture and you would legally require an FFL06 to do this. You will be unable to acquire insurance without one.

If you don't want a license or insurance, consider this particular outcome:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-nv/pr/...ally-manufacturing-ammunition-without-license

Thanks for the comment and link.
Liability and legality: That is why the shooter would have to "pull the lever" themselves. Everything set-up, but the shooter actually pours the powder and seats the bullets. Travel to Cecil Co. - likely twice, would be required. Once to provide components and possibly measure individual rifle chamber and a second visit to assemble prepared components.

NO incendiary ammo, no "Werewolf killer" ammo etc., no cheap component "blasting ammo", no MAX charge ammo.
This is just for high quality handloads for serious shooters who are not (yet) reloaders.

You may still be liable if you did all the setup.

I suggest speaking officially with one of the firearms savvy lawyers here on MDS.

Good tip.
Firearms savvy lawyers here on MDS please feel free to PM me.

A question on one of your "upsides". How is it better tuned for their firearm? Are you going to help the person work up a load for them? Otherwise it isn't likely any better tuned for their firearm than commercial ammo might be. Now, your setup might be more consistent and thus accurate, but it isn't actually tuned for their firearm without individually working up a load for that specific gun.

But per Pinecone, you certainly need an FFL-06 if you are reloading it for them. If they are pulling the crank, you probably don't. However in terms of any liability, you might still as it is your equipment and your setup, your house/garage, etc. It might still technically fall afoul of local/state business licensing or zoning.

Then you need to determine what your time is worth as well as what others might pay for it. If this is really a reloading tutorial where you are walking them through it using your equipment and their components that could likely be worth a reasonable amount. No idea what someone would pay for it, but I'd guess you could probably charge $50-100 for a 2-4hrs reloading class where they also got to walk away with some new reloaded ammo that they can go shoot. TBH I'd see the market for providing setup reloading equipment as a regular service as a niche within a niche. Especially with the current market for reloading supplies being very hard to come by.

If it was your components and equipment and were charging per round they reload you probably could find a decent market for that.

Or even if you got your FFL-06 and the customer provided the components (there are a few services like that out there).

You have to think about what you are actually providing. If the person has to supply the components which involves time and money on their part, has to drive to your place twice and has to invest the time in actually reloading the ammunition themselves they have to invest a significant amount. What they get out of it is the rental of your equipment and possibly the equipment being better setup than they might be able to do. Possibly some learning about how to reload if they've never done it. The later is likely worth a lot more than the former. Just based on typical tool rental prices, figure whatever your reloading equipment setup is worth, figure probably being able to charge maybe 5% of that total cost as a rental for half a day of use tops, if not somewhat less. You might be able to add some as a reloading tutorial, but honestly you'd probably need to bill it as THAT and charge based on providing reloading classes (equipment provided). Reloading lessons, not "use my equipment I professionally setup for you".

I realize I am coming across as overly negative, but you need to look at what the market size is (which you are doing), but also what service are you actually providing, what costs, time and risks are incurred by the person using your service (for example, they have to purchase likely at least a pound of powder, some hundreds of bullets, some hundreds of cases, plus some hundreds of primers or a box of primers and if they only load, say 500 .45acp and now have 2/3rds of a pound of powder and have a box of primers with no reloading equipment. They either need to try to sell that, or are forced to use your services again or they need to go out and buy their own reloading equipment). Since this is a single stage setup, you are talking low volume. Which makes that even worse. So they need to maybe track down 100 bullets, cases the same, going to be hard to get a single tray of primers, but they might be able to beg in the F/S section for a tray and might get a donation, or if someone is going to go to the hassle of meeting with someone to sell them a SINGLE tray, probably like $20 for a tray (IMHO, I'd consider donating a tray to a good cause, but my primers don't grow on trees right now and unless I am doing something specifically to help someone out, IMHO unless I need to get rid of something, I am probably not going to any hassle for less than $20. Whether that is a tray of primers or some old dinning room chairs I am looking to get rid of. Because my time is worth something, not just the intrinsic value of whatever it is I am parting with). And the powder, well probably stuck with at least a pound they'd need and want to get. Though if loading rifle cartridges, you might actually use most of a pound of powder for 100 rounds, depending on what you are loading (or at least half a pound). And the person might have to track down and buy dies that they can't use unless they buy reloading equipment...

IMHO at the very least if you were providing some of this, for example primers. Or primers and powder and offering what cartridges they could reload based on what you have, you'd probably get takers (even if they had to supply bullets and cases as those aren't super hard to source).

Again, to harp, if you were offering reloading tutorials or reloading the ammo for someone if they supply all of the components and then can come pickup the loaded ammo, you'd definitely have a market. But a good single stage setup isn't impossible to track down the equipment right now. And if you want one that can do a decent enough job, you'd likely be looking at perhaps $300-400 all up (even if not as nice as your setup). And then it is significantly less time on that person's end as they don't need to drive to you multiple times when you are available. They can load whenever they like. They can tune their setup to what works best for them. They can tune their loads to their exact rifles...

You'd perhaps be better off offering a progressive and someone to crank out blasting ammo. You bring the components and your barrel and for 3hrs or less you can load up 1500 rounds of 9mm and I'll set stuff up for you and all it costs is $60.

In addition, there is a sticky at the top of the Reloading section for people willing to teach people to reload for FREE.

Either on the newbies equipment or the instructors.

Back when I got my 650, I had a few CLOSE friends, who I allowed to use it to load their components into ammo for THEM. Just using the equipment. Every so often they would give me a pound of powder or a brick of primers, as a friend. But quickly, most of them bought their own 650 to avoid the driving.

“I realize I am coming across as overly negative”

Not really. In any enterprise, one should examine all potential issues, not just SWOT. I’ve considered much of what you state here. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. Some responses:

1) There has been NO apparent interest by non-reloaders. So this discussion is likely moot. However: Is this lack of interest due to the inconvenience of having to obtain components and make trips? I think it’s more likely due to non-reloaders simply not grokking how much difference “tuned” and consistent ammunition makes to a target shooter. (Or possibly they really don’t care about precision, as long as they get to go bang and make holes and blow shite up.) The money spent on rifles, ammo and associated gear in this frenzied market is nothing short of ridiculous. Scope rings and bases, scopes, bipods, shooting rests, other accessories and tactikool crap for hundreds (thousands) of dollars. The envisioned service would be a tiny fraction of this for a very significant increase in precision (if the shooter and system are capable).

2) I do not view this as a get-rich proposition. I enjoy shooting, reloading and meeting and talking “shop” with other shooters. And I don’t mind teaching. This would be an enjoyable pastime for me. I just retired, and shooting is my number one hobby. (Shhhh! - my wife thinks it’s catching up on years of house/yard maintenance!)

3) I would expect many, if not most, persons who would use the service to quickly learn and graduate to their own reloading equipment. (Planned obsolescence - how that for a business model?)

4) The inconvenience of purchasing small amounts of powder, primers and bullets could be easily attenuated by combining with other buddy shooters. (I could even facilitate groups.) How many guys that shoot together have .223/5.56 or 6.5CM rifles? Yes, I can provide small amounts of some components, but I would want customers to acquire their own. These CAN be had, with $$$ and/or a bit of effort. This effort would also serve somewhat as a filtering mechanism to weed out the guys who shoot the 3 foot tall Osama targets with their AR’s at the 50 yard range. The driving issue does impose a real geographic barrier or limit to a potential customer base, as the customer would have to “pull the handle”. (I won’t go deeper into the liability issues at this point.)

5) Tuning! With the current plethora of very capable factory rifles (RPR’s and such-like, stock Savage and Rem Varmint bolt guns and heavy/varmint barreled AR’s) the capability for excellent precision from off-the-shelf rifles is high. However, as most reloaders know, that potential will likely never be achieved with even the best factory ammo. And premium ammo is $$$. (Remember, this is rifle only, NO blasting ammo.)

A tuning package could easily be created. Major tuning parameters could be varied: powder type and charge and bullet seating depth. Tuning these alone would likely offer precision improved over factory ammo. Throw in more subtle factors and surprising precision is possible. If customers bring in their rifles, seating depth to lands indexing can (usually) be determined as an important starting point (given that magazine size limits many rifles). Bushing dies can vary neck tension. Not to mention brass prep. At the risk of sounding a bit confident, I’ve been reloading precision ammo for decades, and believe that it would not be difficult to provide a pathway to significantly improved precision through reloading (notice the legal wording), given capable shooters and equipment.

Alas, as NO interest has been expressed by non-reloaders, it doesn’t look like it will be a thing. But interesting to toss around the idea anyway.

KRC

Most shooters already knows a friend or someone local to them who reloads. The serious target shooters who care about the most accurate ammo already reload. Some people are happy if they can hit a 24" gong 3 times out of 5. The hardest thing in today's market is finding the components and your "customers" still have to do that. I suspect the niche you are trying to appeal to is just to few and far between.

Why not get a NRA Reloading Instructors certification and offer classes.

Short & Sweet = Is Not something to do small time . Because of the high fixed costs to do so legally , it is a Go Big , or Go Home field of endeavor .

The whole tuned for each individual rifle is not followed by many people. The OCW/OBT theory is embraced by many.

And there is very good quality match ammo available these days. Federal Gold Medal Match. Copper Creek. Black Hills. And many smaller custom reloaders.

KRC said:

“I realize I am coming across as overly negative”

Not really. In any enterprise, one should examine all potential issues, not just SWOT. I’ve considered much of what you state here. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments. Some responses:

1) There has been NO apparent interest by non-reloaders. So this discussion is likely moot. However: Is this lack of interest due to the inconvenience of having to obtain components and make trips? I think it’s more likely due to non-reloaders simply not grokking how much difference “tuned” and consistent ammunition makes to a target shooter. (Or possibly they really don’t care about precision, as long as they get to go bang and make holes and blow shite up.) The money spent on rifles, ammo and associated gear in this frenzied market is nothing short of ridiculous. Scope rings and bases, scopes, bipods, shooting rests, other accessories and tactikool crap for hundreds (thousands) of dollars. The envisioned service would be a tiny fraction of this for a very significant increase in precision (if the shooter and system are capable).

2) I do not view this as a get-rich proposition. I enjoy shooting, reloading and meeting and talking “shop” with other shooters. And I don’t mind teaching. This would be an enjoyable pastime for me. I just retired, and shooting is my number one hobby. (Shhhh! - my wife thinks it’s catching up on years of house/yard maintenance!)

3) I would expect many, if not most, persons who would use the service to quickly learn and graduate to their own reloading equipment. (Planned obsolescence - how that for a business model?)

4) The inconvenience of purchasing small amounts of powder, primers and bullets could be easily attenuated by combining with other buddy shooters. (I could even facilitate groups.) How many guys that shoot together have .223/5.56 or 6.5CM rifles? Yes, I can provide small amounts of some components, but I would want customers to acquire their own. These CAN be had, with $$$ and/or a bit of effort. This effort would also serve somewhat as a filtering mechanism to weed out the guys who shoot the 3 foot tall Osama targets with their AR’s at the 50 yard range. The driving issue does impose a real geographic barrier or limit to a potential customer base, as the customer would have to “pull the handle”. (I won’t go deeper into the liability issues at this point.)

5) Tuning! With the current plethora of very capable factory rifles (RPR’s and such-like, stock Savage and Rem Varmint bolt guns and heavy/varmint barreled AR’s) the capability for excellent precision from off-the-shelf rifles is high. However, as most reloaders know, that potential will likely never be achieved with even the best factory ammo. And premium ammo is $$$. (Remember, this is rifle only, NO blasting ammo.)

A tuning package could easily be created. Major tuning parameters could be varied: powder type and charge and bullet seating depth. Tuning these alone would likely offer precision improved over factory ammo. Throw in more subtle factors and surprising precision is possible. If customers bring in their rifles, seating depth to lands indexing can (usually) be determined as an important starting point (given that magazine size limits many rifles). Bushing dies can vary neck tension. Not to mention brass prep. At the risk of sounding a bit confident, I’ve been reloading precision ammo for decades, and believe that it would not be difficult to provide a pathway to significantly improved precision through reloading (notice the legal wording), given capable shooters and equipment.

Alas, as NO interest has been expressed by non-reloaders, it doesn’t look like it will be a thing. But interesting to toss around the idea anyway.

KRC

Click to expand...

1. I am interested in learning to reload eventually, but the lack of easily obtainable ingredients puts a kink in that plan, as does lack of time and space. But eventually I plan to get into reloading.

I thought I would take up this hobby but now am going to sell the unopened Lee Classic press and dies for 38 and 9mm.

Pinecone said:

You may still be liable if you did all the setup.

I suggest speaking officially with one of the firearms savvy lawyers here on MDS.

Click to expand...

Seems to me if you provided the tools (and possibly advice/instruction, such as "Don't smoke in here, dumbazz!") you have assumed liability. I admit it's been a while since I studied Tort Law, and I'll instantly defer to the lawyers here.

erwos said:

If you are the one pulling the lever, the ATF would consider it commercial manufacture and you would legally require an FFL06 to do this. You will be unable to acquire insurance without one.

If you don't want a license or insurance, consider this particular outcome:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-nv/pr/...ally-manufacturing-ammunition-without-license

Click to expand...

Good info. Thanks for passing that on.