Recommending a Rifle Caliber for a New Adult Shooter

I would recommend that he try shooting the Rem 721, with reduced recoil loads, such as these;

https://www.remington.com/ammunition/centerfire-rifle/managed-recoil

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/30-06-springfield-125-gr-sst-custom-lite#!/

https://hsmammunition.com/low-recoil/

.223/5.56

Bolt gun and AR. AR matches his experience with the S&W 15-22.

Bolt gun is a primer for the .30-06.

Same round, so less money for various types of ammo.

I am thinking that you get the youngster out with things you may have and see what piques his interest.

Rifle pistol shotgun. And yeah, you said rifle, but pistol and shotgun can be fun.

For plinking the ar22 he has is a good start, and the rifle sounds good as well.

If he is interested in hunting or general target shooting, then the missing link may be shotgun. Various clay stuff is good, with some movement, speed and coordination. Moves fast to keep interest. And hunting pretty much anything. A nice quality semi, reliable, and maybe not crazy expensive.

If home defense, maybe pistol, or pcc if or when legal/old enough. 9mm is cheap enough for fun.

On rifle, something that could be HD and hunting, though personally a 223/556 wouldn’t be my top choice for deer or larger. Maybe ar10 that gives good all around performance. Recoil isn’t too crazy,’ammo is a little mo spensive though.

Just trying to give a little different tact on what he may be interested in.

calicojack said:

So a member of my wife's family is a young man. His dad never took him out shooting. He has a S&W 15-22 that he has been plinking with. He also has his Grand Dad's Remington 721 in 30-06 (and I saw to it that he received it). He has not shot the Remington yet; I am trying to get him to go to the range me.

Like a lot of young people, he does not have tons of cash. But he has saved enough to get a entry level bolt gun. He is talking about getting a 22 magnum.

I was wondering what you guys thought. I am thinking he should get a caliber that is substantial but not too intimidating, and it should be inexpensive, as I think he would be more likely to shoot. That is almost certainly why he is not shooting the 30-06.

I am thinking one of these rather inexpensive but capable enough calibers, all of which can be had for less than 50 cents a round, or in some cases 25 cents a round
1. 223 Rem
2. 7.62x39 (yes - the AK round in a bolt gun)
3. 6.5 Grendel

Thoughts?

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I'm going to deviate some from the prevailing theme, but hey you know what they say about opinions & you asked.

I think a bolt gun is the way to go. Great way to learn marksmanship skills.
I think a 22WMR would be a let down since he already has the S&W 15-22.
Also agree the 30-06 might be a bit much to start on for basic marksmanship.

Trying to think from a young mans perspective
I'd recommend a 6.5 Creedmore. It's like the 308 of his generation. Very low recoil for a very capable cartridge. Due to it's popularity the ammo cost is very reasonable. 6.5 is also quite versatile for precision shooting or hunting.

As for an entry level rifle I have an offer to make you. I'm about to buy a rifle I don't need just to get the scope I really want for my ELR build. The deal is if I buy a Mauser M18 any caliber & I get a 50% off coupon for any Minox optic.

I was going to buy the M18 in 6.5 PRC (think Creedmore Mag) on Friday.
I don't need it & your thread got me thinking.
If this young man has saved $350 and is interested. I'll order a M18 in the caliber of his choosing and take the $150+ hit to get the coupon.
Check out the M18 reviews and share this with him. These have an MSRP of $699 Buds has the 6.5 Creedmore for $649.00 now. https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/47003/mau+m18+65cred+22+5rd

Thanks to a crazy marketing ploy by Blazer/Mauser/Minox
Euro Optic currently has it on sale for $499.00+ shipping plus the Minox coupon. So look at available calibers on Euro optic. Here: https://www.eurooptic.com/Mauser-M18-Rifles.aspx

M18 Review: https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/review-mauser-m18/247588

The Mauser reviews all seem to agree this is very accurate, very good adjustable trigger, reliable, good detachable mag, and takes Rem 700 scope bases.

I think this is would be a great entry level rifle for $350

If your/He is interested please PM me before the end of the week and we'll figure it out.

If not I hope he gets a rifle he really likes and gets some use out of it at the range.

Another thought would be to take an armorers class with him at SOTAR and you two could build an inexpensive AR together.

Questions:
1. How far are you shooting?
2. Can you use bimetal jacket?
3. Are you planning on hunting?

I know the crowd here is in favor of 5.56x45 - understandably so - but 6.5 Grendel is a superior cartridge in most respects, and you can still build an AR out of it. There are also a fair number of solid bolt gun choices for it (including the Ruger American, which can even take AR mags). You can also plink with it using steel-cased ammo for not much more than 5.56.

calicojack said:

That's a GREAT question; I think his Dad, or perhaps other family members, have made him think AR's are "trouble". A lot of the family members when I show them pictures of my AR's think I am sort of nuts. Kind of a Fudd mentality. His dad claims to be a conservative but is all in for an AR15 ban. Says we don'tr "need" them. I told him by that logic we don't "need" V8 Mustangs.

I am trying to keep the shooting sports alive in the family. I want the kid to learn marksmanship fundamentals and I am hoping his enthusiasm will be contagious.

You guys are asking the right questions though. All feedback appreciated.

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So DEFINITELY an AR in 5.56 or 9mm with an optic, main determining factor would be the distance he intends to shoot, and what ranges he has available. Want to keep our rights and traditions alive, then teach folks to handle and shoot AR's, the younger the better. It's truly the best platform to get into most shooting sports, or to build practical proficiency with a rifle. There used to be a large percentage of pro-hunting, anti-tactical gun owners, but they are fading as they either change their mind, or die off. Most anyone under 40 has grown up around ARs, has seen them in video games and movies, and don't really have the same hang-ups as the older generations when it comes to owning one, and is part of the reason they have become so popular, so might as well help keep a good thing going.

calicojack said:

That's a GREAT question; I think his Dad, or perhaps other family members, have made him think AR's are "trouble". A lot of the family members when I show them pictures of my AR's think I am sort of nuts. Kind of a Fudd mentality. His dad claims to be a conservative but is all in for an AR15 ban. Says we don'tr "need" them. I told him by that logic we don't "need" V8 Mustangs.

I am trying to keep the shooting sports alive in the family. I want the kid to learn marksmanship fundamentals and I am hoping his enthusiasm will be contagious.

You guys are asking the right questions though. All feedback appreciated.

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So, show him pictures of different ARs.

We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious:



https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/

Mosin

I vote for the AR15. Easy to shoot, get one before banned, familiar controls related to his 15-22, and the ability to swap uppers to accept many other calibers. .22lr, 9mm, .223/5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, 458 Socom, 450 Bushmaster, and others. Get one now or never. Maybe thru a private sale from Armslist or something, with some assistance.

Biggfoot44 said:

Or complete handloading setup for .30-06 .

Some people LIKE bolt actions, walnut , etc, and that's perfectly fine. Viva freedom of choice !

I Like .22WMR , but unless your young friend specifically wants one on purpose , plenty of more suitable and versatile choices for 3rd gun of a three rifle battery .

Of the three listed choices , my first thought , and second thought both went to .223 bolt actions . ( My third thought was any of the three, if willing to trade off dirt cheap plinking ammo in exchange for more capability .)

BUT , I whole hartedly would sugguest looking into a lever action and/ or pistol caliber .

The lowest purchase cost, and dirt cheap plinking ammo would be a HiPoint 995 .

Henry lever action , or various M92 clones . The .38/ .357 flavor would have cheapest factory plinking ammo , .44 or .45Colt more potential versatility .

I really like the idea of the Ruger 77/ 357 , but unless you stumbled onto a heck of a deal on a used one , the purchase cost is steep .

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Mike said:

If anyone is wanting a stainless 357/38 SPL Rossi, they appear to be back in stock at KYGUNCO.com

https://kygunco.com/Product/View?ItemNo=95118

Cash / Text-A-Check Price : $534.99

I paid a little less when I bought mine but that still seems like a good price. Mine seems to shoot very well and its operation is quite smooth. The fit and finish on mine is very good. No mismatched edges between the wood and the receiver, and no burrs or sharp edges on the metal parts. I had a chamber concern that Rossi fixed under warranty. I'm happy with mine.

This is from the thread I started back when I bought mine.

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Mike said:

I had a Marlin 30-30 lever back in the '70s that I left with my brother when he got out of the Marines and I moved to Madison for college. I have wanted to get another lever gun for a long time. Now I see this one that uses the 223/5.56 NATO rounds. I like the idea of not having to stock additional sizes of ammo. The reason I let go of my 30-30 was the ammo cost. But the ammo for this gun is abundant and half or less the cost for 30-30. I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this rifle.

Is Browning any good these days?

Does this round make sense to have in a lever rifle? It'd be mostly just target shooting to start with. My interests keep shifting, so what would this be good for beyond punching holes in paper/(empty) cans? I'd probably put a scope on it too.

http://store.unitedgunshop.com/prod...rem-20-41-gloss-walnut-pistol-grip-stock-blue $882.56

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Here is my 2¢ worth. I second what Biggfoot44 said. Lever action is the AR-15 of the old west LOL. I bought a Rossi 357/38 SPL lever rifle and I like shooting it a lot. When I was young like your nephew, the cost of 30-30 put me off shooting it a lot. With a pistol caliber like the 357/38, cost will be less but the enjoyment just as immense.

.

.223/5.56 for general target shooting, self defense, military service prep. Etc...
For competition and deer hunting I vote for 6.5 creedmore. It seems like the way to go these days. It makes me wish I were not so invested in .308.

I would push toward a lever or bolt in 30-30, or in 243. 300 blackout in a Ruger American rifle might also be a good choice.
In AR platform, .223/5.56 is almost a no brainer just for low cost shooting with relatively light recoil. Another option is to take him shooting with some lighter recoiling rifles and see if you can't work him up to the '.06. I have often introduced new shooters via letting them try different calibers that I own working their way from lighter revoil calibers to heavier calibers. I have done this a lot with handguns....but it should work with rifles just fine as well. With pistols/revolvers, you would be surprised how many newbies can be worked up through pistol calibers from lighter to heavier and can even be coaxed this way to try 44 mag or even 460 S&W. .223 to 243 to 308 is a great natural progression which would leave just a small bump to get used to 30.06.

It used to be, people picked a caliber partly based on availability at Walmart. That's completely out the window now.

Availability has always been, and will always be an important factor . The terminology evolves .

Usta be split into three categories back in the day :

1. Every gas station , hardware, and country store ( .30-30 , .30-06 , .22lr , 12ga )

2. Most dedicated gun * counters * at hardware, sports, bait, etc stores

3. Specialized gun *stores* , and/ or have to " order " .

Say what we will about Wal Mart , but for a 15-20yr period we had a Golden Age of consistent local ammo selection .