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Old June 17th, 2019, 06:43 PM #91
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I missed this thread the first time around. Good stuff.

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Originally Posted by T-Man View Post
Thanks for writing this, Tom. I know Luke 22:36 is often quoted and commonly understood that way. If we continue reading down through 22:38, however, I think verses 37 & 38 open up a completely different perspective. It shows to me that Jesus completely disagrees with their literal interpretation of his commands in 22:36. The Word of God is sharper than any sword, and His kingdom will not advance by human swords. I don't believe 22:36 supports the case for self-defense for this reason. Thankfully, God provided us with everything else you mentioned as sufficient biblical case for self-defense.

The real gem on this link is the discussion that it inspired in the comment section.

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Old June 17th, 2019, 07:43 PM #92
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Originally Posted by PowPow View Post
I missed this thread the first time around. Good stuff.



Thanks for writing this, Tom. I know Luke 22:36 is often quoted and commonly understood that way. If we continue reading down through 22:38, however, I think verses 37 & 38 open up a completely different perspective. It shows to me that Jesus completely disagrees with their literal interpretation of his commands in 22:36. The Word of God is sharper than any sword, and His kingdom will not advance by human swords. I don't believe 22:36 supports the case for self-defense for this reason. Thankfully, God provided us with everything else you mentioned as sufficient biblical case for self-defense.

The real gem on this link is the discussion that it inspired in the comment section.



Awesomeness!
Now I have that song stuck in my head.😂

Yeah, you could be right but to me Jesus seems to be talking about concrete things in the verse that the disciples will need after He is crucified. He mentions a knapsack or purse depending on translation as well so it doesn’t seem to makes that He would be literal and then symbolic in the course of a few words. David Guzik is one of my favorite commentators and he writes:

But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack: The intent of Jesus seems to be, “I am on the point of leaving you, and when I am gone, you must use common sense means for provision and protection.” Such practical considerations were not needed before, but were needed now.

The following verses have been debated for a long time. One of the popes believed the 2 swords are symbolic for the secular justice system and the religious authorities. Others argue the disciples were not getting the point about simple preparations for the future and presenting their swords to fight for Him - still stuck on Him as conquering King....and that is why Jesus responds with essentially saying Enough of this nonsense.

It is an interesting question.
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Old June 18th, 2019, 02:27 PM #93
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I always thought of the Bible as what guided me to use the gun or not.
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Old June 19th, 2019, 08:46 AM #94
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Originally Posted by Engine4 View Post
So the Methodist Church is having a "Faith & Guns Forum" in DC next month.

https://salsa3.salsalabs.com/o/50192...m_medium=email

As you can see, the speakers are all anti gun, even down to having Everytown for Gun Safety Survivors. They tout the number killed so far this year by guns as 10,751. Although I'd love to attend & present the truth, I am no good at public speaking & would only represent our side as a bumbling fool. What I want to do is put down in writing to submit to them a well spoken & fact based editorial pointing out the error of their ways. Doing a search on Google for facts on firearm deaths simply points to all antis (imagine that). What resources can I use to that gives me the research I need?

“But of course, when they ask for a "lead from the church," most people mean they want the clergy to put out a political program. That is silly. The clergy are those particular people within the whole church who have been specially trained and set aside to look after what concerns us as creatures who are going to live forever. And we are asking them to do a quite different job, for which they have not been trained. The job is really on us- on the laymen.”
― C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

The church and the clergy have no business in politics and gun control. Preachers and clergy need to be concerned about spiritual well being of the church they tend to the flock. In reality its non of their business.
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