Civility

gtodave said:

So you cause extra work for your boss and your entire company? You must be very good at what you do to be afforded such leeway. And I feel sorry for your wife and kids. No doubt their social lives have suffered as a result of your position. But hey, if it keeps your blood pressure down, it's all good, right?

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clandestine said:

This is my goal.

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44man said:

I am VERY good at what I do. I have only need to please my boss, and sometimes that doesn’t happen, but ever other person there works for me so I don’t give two shits what they think.

And my wife and son would have it no other way. They understand exactly how I feel and they feel the same way with the exception that they will on occasion deal with shitbags because they can. Personally I can not, I will not. And my wife and son don’t want me to lose my temper dealing with shotbags because they know how that turns out for the shitbags and in turn for me.

Happy wife and son happy life.

Life’s to short to waste time on these types, at least mine is.

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clandestine said:

I congratulate you. My Wife is lockstep with me about who we are friends with, and the people we allow into our lives. We have no qualms about parting ways with people who have lack values, or hold to values that are in opposition to what we live for.

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smokey0118 said:

I feel there's room for both approaches. We are not subjects of the crown. The people that set up our government went to great lengths to ensure the government should be afraid of the people. Rather than the marxist government system of thinking a utopia is possible, they knew that humans are prone to tyranny and constructed failsafes within the system to check the worst parts of humanity. People in government do not feel any threat from the public anymore. It's healthy for our system that they be reminded of our capability to remove them from power if they become too tyrannical. WWNC and mopar absolutely serve in this capacity. They act to energize the 2a base.

Now you do also have to recognize that we are a LONG way away from actually using force against tyrants. So in this climate of a thousand cuts, we've got to use the current system and work with the people in office to influence policy. This does require classic political acumen and an educational tone. This also requires winning the moderates to our side in social media through attractive and reasonable ideas based in data. This is where a calm presentation that is willing to have a dialogue with the opposition comes in handy. We just plain do have data and reason on our side. If we take the time to present it in an attractive way, we can win people over to our side and dull the attacks from the other side. Because moderates make up the majority of the people in our nation, this is the strategy that the majority of our efforts should be directed towards.

Along with the social and political aspects comes political action during elections. It's more difficult to make atterbeary think rationally than it is to promote a poltical rival to bump her out of her seat. At the very least, it will keep people in close districts on their toes if they know they will have to spend much more money to beat an opponent if they support 2a infringements. Election time is the time to fight for the 2a. If we can get a couple thousand people to donate a day for testimony, we should be able to get a couple thousand people to hand out pamphlets or work a day for a pro-gun campaign. If nothing else, kick money you would spend on a magazine to a pro-gun campaign.

I see it a bit like why islam is so successful in conquest. When things get extreme, they have a jihadist military side that crushes opposition with force. For the rest of the time, they have nonviolent muslims immigrating to other countries and then having 12 kids, working within the system and using laws to their advantage. Depending on the conditions present, either can be the path to victory.

We have to recognize the importance of both camps and work cooperatively to promote the 2a.

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smokey0118 said:

I feel there's room for both approaches. We are not subjects of the crown. The people that set up our government went to great lengths to ensure the government should be afraid of the people. Rather than the marxist government system of thinking a utopia is possible, they knew that humans are prone to tyranny and constructed failsafes within the system to check the worst parts of humanity. People in government do not feel any threat from the public anymore. It's healthy for our system that they be reminded of our capability to remove them from power if they become too tyrannical. WWNC and mopar absolutely serve in this capacity. They act to energize the 2a base.

Now you do also have to recognize that we are a LONG way away from actually using force against tyrants. So in this climate of a thousand cuts, we've got to use the current system and work with the people in office to influence policy. This does require classic political acumen and an educational tone. This also requires winning the moderates to our side in social media through attractive and reasonable ideas based in data. This is where a calm presentation that is willing to have a dialogue with the opposition comes in handy. We just plain do have data and reason on our side. If we take the time to present it in an attractive way, we can win people over to our side and dull the attacks from the other side. Because moderates make up the majority of the people in our nation, this is the strategy that the majority of our efforts should be directed towards.

Along with the social and political aspects comes political action during elections. It's more difficult to make atterbeary think rationally than it is to promote a poltical rival to bump her out of her seat. At the very least, it will keep people in close districts on their toes if they know they will have to spend much more money to beat an opponent if they support 2a infringements. Election time is the time to fight for the 2a. If we can get a couple thousand people to donate a day for testimony, we should be able to get a couple thousand people to hand out pamphlets or work a day for a pro-gun campaign. If nothing else, kick money you would spend on a magazine to a pro-gun campaign.

I see it a bit like why islam is so successful in conquest. When things get extreme, they have a jihadist military side that crushes opposition with force. For the rest of the time, they have nonviolent muslims immigrating to other countries and then having 12 kids, working within the system and using laws to their advantage. Depending on the conditions present, either can be the path to victory.

We have to recognize the importance of both camps and work cooperatively to promote the 2a.

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teratos said:

There is room for multiple approaches. While I don't think the 2 finger salute is helpful, it is an expression of the frustration felt by many in our camp. Mopar had right to express that.

We need some people to take the "voice of reason" approach. We have that. MSI, MSRPA, NRA to name a few. They are the expert panels, they deliver an excellent message in a measured way and engage with the Moms pretty well. Not much criticism is levied at them, and with good reason.

We have the "We Will Not Comply" camp. PP being the shining example. Personally, I think this year the approach made a lot of people stand up and take notice. In the past I used to not be such a fan of this thinking "hey, we can reason with these people". We may be able to with a some. Not many. This wing of the 2A community expertly used WWNC to get the attention of legislators, Moms, and the broader (nationwide) 2A community. The approach is being used successfully in several other States. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Some members have gone out of their way to take a dump on these efforts because they don't like this approach. They see it as unlawful. It isn't. Non-compliance with Unconstitutional laws is a duty.

There are numerous videos of PP members engaging Moms in civil conversation on the sidewalks. Rational, well thought out dialogue. This is invaluable. We even had an airplane with a banner. Some people took a dump on this. Does it change the mind of the other side? No. It is, however, publicity. It boosts the morale of the troops. THAT is huge. Funny the people crapping on this deed were NOT the people out on the sidewalks doing the heavy lifting.

People have to understand that there is no one right way of doing things. They have to see the merit of different approaches. Different prongs of attack. We need more people to think outside the box.

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teratos said:

There is room for multiple approaches. While I don't think the 2 finger salute is helpful, it is an expression of the frustration felt by many in our camp. Mopar had right to express that.

We need some people to take the "voice of reason" approach. We have that. MSI, MSRPA, NRA to name a few. They are the expert panels, they deliver an excellent message in a measured way and engage with the Moms pretty well. Not much criticism is levied at them, and with good reason.

We have the "We Will Not Comply" camp. PP being the shining example. Personally, I think this year the approach made a lot of people stand up and take notice. In the past I used to not be such a fan of this thinking "hey, we can reason with these people". We may be able to with a some. Not many. This wing of the 2A community expertly used WWNC to get the attention of legislators, Moms, and the broader (nationwide) 2A community. The approach is being used successfully in several other States. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Some members have gone out of their way to take a dump on these efforts because they don't like this approach. They see it as unlawful. It isn't. Non-compliance with Unconstitutional laws is a duty.

There are numerous videos of PP members engaging Moms in civil conversation on the sidewalks. Rational, well thought out dialogue. This is invaluable. We even had an airplane with a banner. Some people took a dump on this. Does it change the mind of the other side? No. It is, however, publicity. It boosts the morale of the troops. THAT is huge. Funny the people crapping on this deed were NOT the people out on the sidewalks doing the heavy lifting.

People have to understand that there is no one right way of doing things. They have to see the merit of different approaches. Different prongs of attack. We need more people to think outside the box.

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Ammo Jon said:

In regards to civility and disagreement. I love a good disagreement and opposing viewpoints with a good mix of emotion and logic. There are plenty of people on this forum that I don’t always agree with but would gladly break bread with them.

What I cant stand is a person that constantly undermines and plays the devils advocate just for the sake of causing arguments. There are people out there that are so hungry for any type of acknowledgement that they will take any attention they can get, even negative. This is someone that I have no interest engaging in any type of conversation with, whether mundane or about real issues.

This isn’t directed at anyone in particular, just generally speaking.

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teratos said:

There is room for multiple approaches. While I don't think the 2 finger salute is helpful, it is an expression of the frustration felt by many in our camp. Mopar had right to express that.

We need some people to take the "voice of reason" approach. We have that. MSI, MSRPA, NRA to name a few. They are the expert panels, they deliver an excellent message in a measured way and engage with the Moms pretty well. Not much criticism is levied at them, and with good reason.

We have the "We Will Not Comply" camp. PP being the shining example. Personally, I think this year the approach made a lot of people stand up and take notice. In the past I used to not be such a fan of this thinking "hey, we can reason with these people". We may be able to with a some. Not many. This wing of the 2A community expertly used WWNC to get the attention of legislators, Moms, and the broader (nationwide) 2A community. The approach is being used successfully in several other States. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Some members have gone out of their way to take a dump on these efforts because they don't like this approach. They see it as unlawful. It isn't. Non-compliance with Unconstitutional laws is a duty.

There are numerous videos of PP members engaging Moms in civil conversation on the sidewalks. Rational, well thought out dialogue. This is invaluable. We even had an airplane with a banner. Some people took a dump on this. Does it change the mind of the other side? No. It is, however, publicity. It boosts the morale of the troops. THAT is huge. Funny the people crapping on this deed were NOT the people out on the sidewalks doing the heavy lifting.

People have to understand that there is no one right way of doing things. They have to see the merit of different approaches. Different prongs of attack. We need more people to think outside the box.

Click to expand...

teratos said:

There is room for multiple approaches. While I don't think the 2 finger salute is helpful, it is an expression of the frustration felt by many in our camp. Mopar had right to express that.

We need some people to take the "voice of reason" approach. We have that. MSI, MSRPA, NRA to name a few. They are the expert panels, they deliver an excellent message in a measured way and engage with the Moms pretty well. Not much criticism is levied at them, and with good reason.

We have the "We Will Not Comply" camp. PP being the shining example. Personally, I think this year the approach made a lot of people stand up and take notice. In the past I used to not be such a fan of this thinking "hey, we can reason with these people". We may be able to with a some. Not many. This wing of the 2A community expertly used WWNC to get the attention of legislators, Moms, and the broader (nationwide) 2A community. The approach is being used successfully in several other States. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Some members have gone out of their way to take a dump on these efforts because they don't like this approach. They see it as unlawful. It isn't. Non-compliance with Unconstitutional laws is a duty.

There are numerous videos of PP members engaging Moms in civil conversation on the sidewalks. Rational, well thought out dialogue. This is invaluable. We even had an airplane with a banner. Some people took a dump on this. Does it change the mind of the other side? No. It is, however, publicity. It boosts the morale of the troops. THAT is huge. Funny the people crapping on this deed were NOT the people out on the sidewalks doing the heavy lifting.

People have to understand that there is no one right way of doing things. They have to see the merit of different approaches. Different prongs of attack. We need more people to think outside the box.

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Rab1515 said:

Nicely said. I do believe Mopar's salute was a net positive, only because he was the ONLY one to do it. He got there attention in a way that no one else did; it that them no that some of us have had it with them. If more people took that approach it would not be a positive thing.

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esqappellate said:

As a rule, I treat individuals as individuals. I have had some pleasant conversations with some individual MOMs who have actually come up to me to say that I had made some points in testimony that they had never considered. Guess I wasn't breathing fire that day (or maybe it was my dashing gray hair). Not a single MOM has been unpleasant to me personally. I respond accordingly. Personally, I see them as uninformed rather than as blood enemies. Easier on my blood pressure.

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clandestine said:

I congratulate you. My Wife is lockstep with me about who we are friends with, and the people we allow into our lives. We have no qualms about parting ways with people who have lack values, or hold to values that are in opposition to what we live for.

Click to expand...

smokey0118 said:

This also requires winning the moderates to our side in social media through attractive and reasonable ideas based in data. This is where a calm presentation that is willing to have a dialogue with the opposition comes in handy. We just plain do have data and reason on our side. If we take the time to present it in an attractive way, we can win people over to our side and dull the attacks from the other side.

Click to expand...

teratos said:

Honestly, I couldn't look him in the eye and say he shouldn't have done that.

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teratos said:

Sadly, in this day and age, information must be presented as a meme.

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gtodave said:

Or a one-liner sound bite zinger, like "The 80's called, they want their foreign policy back". That stole the headlines, despite the fact that Romney was right.

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