First Amendment WIN in federal court

swinokur · Mar 31, 2019

esqappellate said:
Naaa, Hogan's not involved in this at all, at least I doubt it.

As as been postulated, if any official did this, it was a member of the MGA who grew tired of truth bombs being lobbed into them in front of the Statehouse by PP members and who earlier invaded a political event and embarrassed one of the members.

Hopefully Discovery will reveal the thug.

teratos · Mar 31, 2019

swinokur said:
As as been postulated, if any official did this, it was a member of the MGA who grew tired of truth bombs being lobbed into them in front of the Statehouse by PP members and who earlier invaded a political event and embarrassed one of the members.

Hopefully Discovery will reveal the thug.

That would be so awesome.

esqappellate · Mar 31, 2019

teratos said:
That would be so awesome.

*If* there is any such official, I hope he or she is starting to sweat a little... Or maybe not.

swinokur · Mar 31, 2019

I don’t think Sgt Pope acted unilaterally, given his frequent interactions with the PP on many other occasions with no action taken

But who knows?

motorcoachdoug · Apr 1, 2019

Hmmmm thinking.... If Sgt Pope was told by some "bigwig senator" move them to Lawyers Mall and then you can arrest for protesting without a permit and when he saw they would not move to Lawyers Mall then he made up the next excuse to arrest Rack and his brother. Im just thinking if this could have happened and or that is what the good Sgt was trying to do???

swinokur · Apr 1, 2019

I’m waiting for the court to find out what happened

fabsroman · Apr 1, 2019

motorcoachdoug said:
Hmmmm thinking.... If Sgt Pope was told by some "bigwig senator" move them to Lawyers Mall and then you can arrest for protesting without a permit and when he saw they would not move to Lawyers Mall then he made up the next excuse to arrest Rack and his brother. Im just thinking if this could have happened and or that is what the good Sgt was trying to do???

Now that, would be entrapment. Giving somebody an order, that breaks the law and then arresting them when they follow said order, would be entrapment.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/entrapment-basics-33987.html

Ordering 8 to 10 men to move to Lawyer's Mall, and then arresting them after they obey your order would have been sheer stupidity on Officer Pope's account. He would have had 8 to 10 men, under oath, saying how he ordered them to move off the sidewalk and then he arrested them because they did so.

Then, his main target would have had to be the Hulberts since some of the men involved did move over to Lawyer's Mall and they were not arrested, but the Hulberts were arrested for not moving. So, he would have had to be brilliant enough to say "I am going to put the Hulberts in a no win situation. I am going to order them to move to Lawyer's Mall and if they do, I am going to arrest all 10 guys. If the Hulberts don't move, I am going to arrest them for not obeying a lawful order." Of course, what the heck would have happened if the Hulberts and most of the others moved but only a couple stayed on the sidewalk? Then Pope would have really had a conundrum on who to arrest and what the story would look like in Court.

You guys really think he was thinking this deep into the entire thing, especially since others in this very thread have said that Pope did not have an issue with PP on the sidewalk on many other occurrences.

Think we are going to have to wait for discovery to be concluded before we have any idea what the record will show. Even then, most of us will not be present for depositions, privy to deposition transcripts, able to review the documents provided by the State and others under a Request for Production of Documents, etc.

So, that only leaves us with the ability to speculate until we attend every day of the trial in this matter and listen to the scintilla of evidence that both sides deem worthy to present.

Rab1515 · Apr 1, 2019

fabsroman said:
Now that, would be entrapment. Giving somebody an order, that breaks the law and then arresting them when they follow said order, would be entrapment.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/entrapment-basics-33987.html

Ordering 8 to 10 men to move to Lawyer's Mall, and then arresting them after they obey your order would have been sheer stupidity on Officer Pope's account. He would have had 8 to 10 men, under oath, saying how he ordered them to move off the sidewalk and then he arrested them because they did so.

Then, his main target would have had to be the Hulberts since some of the men involved did move over to Lawyer's Mall and they were not arrested, but the Hulberts were arrested for not moving. So, he would have had to be brilliant enough to say "I am going to put the Hulberts in a no win situation. I am going to order them to move to Lawyer's Mall and if they do, I am going to arrest all 10 guys. If the Hulberts don't move, I am going to arrest them for not obeying a lawful order." Of course, what the heck would have happened if the Hulberts and most of the others moved but only a couple stayed on the sidewalk? Then Pope would have really had a conundrum on who to arrest and what the story would look like in Court.

You guys really think he was thinking this deep into the entire thing, especially since others in this very thread have said that Pope did not have an issue with PP on the sidewalk on many other occurrences.

Think we are going to have to wait for discovery to be concluded before we have any idea what the record will show. Even then, most of us will not be present for depositions, privy to deposition transcripts, able to review the documents provided by the State and others under a Request for Production of Documents, etc.

So, that only leaves us with the ability to speculate until we attend every day of the trial in this matter and listen to the scintilla of evidence that both sides deem worthy to present.

Other members also refused to move, but were not arrested. Only the Hulberts were arrested. Watch the video.

Raineman · Apr 1, 2019

Rab1515 said:
Other members also refused to move, but were not arrested. Only the Hulberts were arrested. Watch the video.

This ^ . Nobody moved to Lawyers Mall.

GTOGUNNER · Apr 1, 2019

That missing un accounted for money in the States Attorneys office will be found in time to settle this case. It's probably the exact amount...

whistlersmother · Apr 1, 2019

Wow. Got some cynics on here today. First the Pugh book deal comments and now here.

Fabulous!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Rab1515 · Apr 1, 2019

Raineman said:
This ^ . Nobody moved to Lawyers Mall.

So you're saying, there were more Patriots than handcuffs the first night?

Deep Lurker · Apr 2, 2019

Bedtime story:

fabsroman · Apr 2, 2019

Raineman said:
This ^ . Nobody moved to Lawyers Mall.

So, everybody refused to do what Pope "ordered" and only the Hulberts were arrested? If that is the case, then Pope really is a moron.

My recollection of the incident is different than yours, but I am only going from what I read and what I can remember of what I read, not what I actually saw with my own two eyes while being present while it happened. So, we will have to wait for discovery to be concluded and see what everybody's recollection is that was present that very night.

fabsroman · Apr 2, 2019

GTOGUNNER said:
That missing un accounted for money in the States Attorneys office will be found in time to settle this case. It's probably the exact amount...

As I have already pointed out, and posted a link to the actual Office of Legislative Audits report, there was no missing money. There was an improper procurement procedure used to purchase something like $60k worth of goods, and the total amount spent on that type of goods/services was $2.1 million for the audit period.

Stoveman · Apr 2, 2019

Video taken that night clearly shows that several of those involved not only did not retreat to LM but actively continued to picket the whole time the brothers were being arrested.

GTOGUNNER · Apr 2, 2019

Stop it. We have to wait for discovery.

swinokur · Apr 2, 2019

Exactly. No amount of rumination will give us any answers so we wait

fred2207 · Apr 2, 2019

fabsroman said:
So, everybody refused to do what Pope "ordered" and only the Hulberts were arrested? If that is the case, then Pope really is a moron.

My recollection of the incident is different than yours, but I am only going from what I read and what I can remember of what I read, not what I actually saw with my own two eyes while being present while it happened. So, we will have to wait for discovery to be concluded and see what everybody's recollection is that was present that very night.

Your recollection is obviously and totally wrong...

Stoveman · Apr 2, 2019

GTOGUNNER said:
Stop it. We have to wait for discovery.

Those pesky facts....

First Amendment WIN in federal court

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