Recoil has nothing to do with shot size. It's a matter of shot weight and velocity.
Result of steel out of full choke are in.
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Recoil has nothing to do with shot size. It's a matter of shot weight and velocity.
Nope. Not a slug barrel but has rifled sights and it kicks ass like that.
Yes, that's a slug bbl. You are thinking of a rifled slug bbl. There are two types. Your's shoots foster type slugs.
Nope. That is the barrel I use. That is the gun I use. Go buy one and hunt with it. You will find barrel length does not mean shit. I shoot that 20" barrel and hit just as many clays as my buddy with his long barrel 870. Barrel length is an overrated myth. Watch hickok45 videos. When he says barrel length is over exaggerated he is not kidding.
Damn, you mean all of those target shooters going back over 100 years got it all wrong? Now you must be kidding.
Well guys shot the gun (Remington 870 special purpose) tonight and shot Black Cloud in full and skeet chokes at 40 yards. 3 pellets difference. 46 on skeet, 43 on full. I will be using full for hunting as I like the longer range I should get. Just some FYI.
So the Skeet Choke worked better than the Full choke even at 40 yards, so you plan to hunt with Full Choke? OK
I used full last year and it killed totally fine. I was just in search of a round ammo that can take birds out rather than wasting a half box as finishers on wounded ones.
Son, you do need to attend my class "Shotguns 101". After that, sign up with DU, volunteer and learn about waterfowl limits.
Birds were hit hard last year in New York State due to the flooding that caused a big drop in their food source. It put a dent in bird populations. State game deaprtment noting losses in numbers will often adjust the seasons and/or limits.
- May 10, 2012
- 1,892
You sound like you are fishing for a strong debate. I am getting off here now. The work day is over. Have a good night.
*That is not a slug barrel. The box says turkey/special purpose. You don't own the gun, I do.
Interesting, thanks. I'm curious to try a 18" tactical shotgun for trap shooting.
Let me call the Trap Shooters Guild and see what they think...
Let me call the Trap Shooters Guild and see what they think...
Captnstabn
Active Member
- Apr 22, 2010
- 997
Welcome back dude.
Hope you stick around, I really enjoy the knowledge you bring here. I still reference the battle belt thread you made a year ago.
Kevp
Ultimate Member
- Apr 17, 2008
- 1,874
Gents,
The issue of barrel length and velocity is argued a lot. The following is from Field and Stream.
[BRACKET "Myth #4"]
Long barrels don't increase velocity. You will read that powder burns entirely in the first 18 to 19 inches of the barrel, so any additional barrel length has no effect on velocity. Untrue: Shotshell velocities don't change as dramatically as do rifle velocities as barrel length increases or decreases, but they can differ a few feet per second per inch of barrel, especially with the slow burn-rate powders used in many steel loads. Bear in mind that manufacturers typically list shotshell velocities based on results from a 30-inch test barrel. If you're one of those who shoots a little stubby thing in the duck blind, your 21-inch-barreled gun may be shooting measurably slower than the 30-inch-barreled pumps and autos on either side of you using the same ammunition.
It is okay to have a preference for a short barrel, but my experience in doing a lot of clay target (skeet, trap, sporting clays) and wing shooting (waterfowl, pheasant, dove, and other upland) is that most folks I've seen shooting short-barrel shotguns (18-20") have not performed anywhere near as well as those using 24-32" barrels. I dove hunted in LA with a guy that swore you needed a short barrel for wing shooting and cited his vast pheasant experience. I had a limit of doves in 30 mins using a 30" 870 and he had multiple limits of misses and no doves after 3 hrs. Shooting pheasants is a whole different ball game- bird holding close on the ground; flushing at close range; and having to wait to let him get out a little so you don't turn him into hamburger.
There are other more important benefits to having a longer barrel for shooting fast moving flying targets such as swing and follow-through, but to each his own.
The issue of barrel length and velocity is argued a lot. The following is from Field and Stream.
[BRACKET "Myth #4"]
Long barrels don't increase velocity. You will read that powder burns entirely in the first 18 to 19 inches of the barrel, so any additional barrel length has no effect on velocity. Untrue: Shotshell velocities don't change as dramatically as do rifle velocities as barrel length increases or decreases, but they can differ a few feet per second per inch of barrel, especially with the slow burn-rate powders used in many steel loads. Bear in mind that manufacturers typically list shotshell velocities based on results from a 30-inch test barrel. If you're one of those who shoots a little stubby thing in the duck blind, your 21-inch-barreled gun may be shooting measurably slower than the 30-inch-barreled pumps and autos on either side of you using the same ammunition.
It is okay to have a preference for a short barrel, but my experience in doing a lot of clay target (skeet, trap, sporting clays) and wing shooting (waterfowl, pheasant, dove, and other upland) is that most folks I've seen shooting short-barrel shotguns (18-20") have not performed anywhere near as well as those using 24-32" barrels. I dove hunted in LA with a guy that swore you needed a short barrel for wing shooting and cited his vast pheasant experience. I had a limit of doves in 30 mins using a 30" 870 and he had multiple limits of misses and no doves after 3 hrs. Shooting pheasants is a whole different ball game- bird holding close on the ground; flushing at close range; and having to wait to let him get out a little so you don't turn him into hamburger.
There are other more important benefits to having a longer barrel for shooting fast moving flying targets such as swing and follow-through, but to each his own.
Kevp
Ultimate Member
- Apr 17, 2008
- 1,874
Welcome back dude.
Hope you stick around, I really enjoy the knowledge you bring here. I still reference the battle belt thread you made a year ago.
Thanks. Just getting ready for hunting season and felt like passing on some info/advice. They don't have to take it, but I got lots of pictures and trophies that indicate I might be doing something right.
STeveZ
Thank you, Abelard
Just a crazy idea. In the past I've heard that steel, shot through a full choke can result in a "blown pattern"; something similar to a much more open choke but without similar consistency (pattern could have large holes). Maybe that could explain the unlikely results you got.
I used to use IC for waterfowl, following the common wisdom that it would throw a M pattern. When I move up to a modified choke, I found I was chasing fewer cripples and that the ducks either dropped, dead in the water, or flew away, which is OK with me.
If you really want to put more shot on-target I would suggest you pattern a modified choke and see how it compares. My guess is it will throw a tighter pattern than SK or F.
Its my understanding that barrel length does not have a significant effect on ballistics, but a longer barrel is better for taking longer shots.
As far as meat hunting vs. sport hunting goes; as long as either are conducted strictly within the constraints of game laws, I tend to keep my judgements to my self.
I used to use IC for waterfowl, following the common wisdom that it would throw a M pattern. When I move up to a modified choke, I found I was chasing fewer cripples and that the ducks either dropped, dead in the water, or flew away, which is OK with me.
If you really want to put more shot on-target I would suggest you pattern a modified choke and see how it compares. My guess is it will throw a tighter pattern than SK or F.
Its my understanding that barrel length does not have a significant effect on ballistics, but a longer barrel is better for taking longer shots.
As far as meat hunting vs. sport hunting goes; as long as either are conducted strictly within the constraints of game laws, I tend to keep my judgements to my self.
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You sound like you are fishing for a strong debate. I am getting off here now. The work day is over. Have a good night.
*That is not a slug barrel. The box says turkey/special purpose. You don't own the gun, I do.
Really, I'm not looking for a debate. Just trying to redirect some of your "off base" thinking. I don't know where you've collected some of your ideas, but they are simply not the norm, not what's been established and some it is flat out false. Stick with it though and please be open to those with experience, for with experience come knowledge, with knowledge comes more and better shooting.
As to your gun, you are correct, it's yours. Funny thing is that I have one too. It's pretty much used for one thing - shooting slugs. It doesn't really matter what's marked on the box. Commonly and for many many years, a short bbl'd shotgun with rifle sights is known as a slug gun. In years past they had fixed chokes usually with IC. Today most have choke tubes and IC still is the most common choke tube to use with slugs. Beyond this are slug guns with fully rifled bbl's for much better accuracy when using sabots. Do what you wish, but I think you would get a lot more enjoyment out of that 870 if you added a 28" VR Bbl.
- May 10, 2012
- 1,892
- May 10, 2012
- 1,892
Funny thing is this gun has a 20" barrel and if I put an extruding choke tube in it(which is what came in it from factory) it is 21". That is 2.5" over 18.5"(legal limit) and works great for many things. Killing rabbits, turkey, geese, duck, squirrel, and if I want to load up a Brenneke car stopper round to smoke a deer or home intruder it can be done.
Last year I cracked a shot 60 yards at a duck flying and dropped it. That told me the barrel and gun can handle any job right there. On a side note, I have a Winchester 1300 28" barrel. I opt not to use it cause I do not want to scratch it.*For the record, my buddy shot slugs in his long barrel 870 with no issues proving you can shoot a slug in any smooth bored shotgun. Look at Winchester pdx1. It can be fired in smooth bored shotgun. Slug barrels are strictly rifled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slug_barrel
browning guy
SCRUFFY NERF HERDER
If I keep reading this horse shit my head is going to explode!
Look just cause you killed a duck at 60 yards does not mean, it a great Idea!
I do not give a flying rats ass about who has a better gun who has a better choke and whos barrel is what size! there a few thing that are true and never change
1. I feel sorry for the poor bastard next to you in the blind or pit with the riot gun barrle going off two foot from his head.
2. if you really need to shoot T shot or BBB to kill a goose you are 1. shooting them in the body cause you are not leading them or you stop moving the gun when you pull the trigger.
3. You want to kill birds dead and hunt in an ethical way, get your ass to the clay range and shot more and learn to shoot!
4. You sound like a gear quear! you want to kill birds see item #3
5. if you can not see the birds eye or make out details you should not be shooting at it!! fvck the 3.5 12 mag or the 10 ga it does not make up for poor shooting or magicly knock 20 yards of the distance.
Blackthorne is laying down some time earned wisdom and I will tell you I have never met the man but he is welcome on my boat any day of the season, he is giving you squared away facts!
Now so you know I am a waterfowel guide and I was raised on the waters of the bay and it rivers I was killing greenheads and bluebills before I was five and yes that is straight shit no need to lie!! If you truely love or respect the sport and art of wingshooting put in the time to practice and learn the basic skill set leave the gear quear shit for the yuppies who hunt once a year and pay to do it.
rant over, back to my Jameson
Look just cause you killed a duck at 60 yards does not mean, it a great Idea!
I do not give a flying rats ass about who has a better gun who has a better choke and whos barrel is what size! there a few thing that are true and never change
1. I feel sorry for the poor bastard next to you in the blind or pit with the riot gun barrle going off two foot from his head.
2. if you really need to shoot T shot or BBB to kill a goose you are 1. shooting them in the body cause you are not leading them or you stop moving the gun when you pull the trigger.
3. You want to kill birds dead and hunt in an ethical way, get your ass to the clay range and shot more and learn to shoot!
4. You sound like a gear quear! you want to kill birds see item #3
5. if you can not see the birds eye or make out details you should not be shooting at it!! fvck the 3.5 12 mag or the 10 ga it does not make up for poor shooting or magicly knock 20 yards of the distance.
Blackthorne is laying down some time earned wisdom and I will tell you I have never met the man but he is welcome on my boat any day of the season, he is giving you squared away facts!
Now so you know I am a waterfowel guide and I was raised on the waters of the bay and it rivers I was killing greenheads and bluebills before I was five and yes that is straight shit no need to lie!! If you truely love or respect the sport and art of wingshooting put in the time to practice and learn the basic skill set leave the gear quear shit for the yuppies who hunt once a year and pay to do it.
rant over, back to my Jameson
- May 10, 2012
- 1,892
Thanks. I will keep on using my full choke in my riot gun if you do not mind. Ethics go out the window when it comes to killing. I also believe in shooting geese that are grounded and not letting them fly away. That is called hunting.If I keep reading this horse shit my head is going to explode!
Look just cause you killed a duck at 60 yards does not mean, it a great Idea!
I do not give a flying rats ass about who has a better gun who has a better choke and whos barrel is what size! there a few thing that are true and never change
1. I feel sorry for the poor bastard next to you in the blind or pit with the riot gun barrle going off two foot from his head.
2. if you really need to shoot T shot or BBB to kill a goose you are 1. shooting them in the body cause you are not leading them or you stop moving the gun when you pull the trigger.
3. You want to kill birds dead and hunt in an ethical way, get your ass to the clay range and shot more and learn to shoot!
4. You sound like a gear quear! you want to kill birds see item #3
5. if you can not see the birds eye or make out details you should not be shooting at it!! fvck the 3.5 12 mag or the 10 ga it does not make up for poor shooting or magicly knock 20 yards of the distance.
Blackthorne is laying down some time earned wisdom and I will tell you I have never met the man but he is welcome on my boat any day of the season, he is giving you squared away facts!
Now so you know I am a waterfowel guide and I was raised on the waters of the bay and it rivers I was killing greenheads and bluebills before I was five and yes that is straight shit no need to lie!! If you truely love or respect the sport and art of wingshooting put in the time to practice and learn the basic skill set leave the gear quear shit for the yuppies who hunt once a year and pay to do it.
rant over, back to my Jameson
browning guy
SCRUFFY NERF HERDER
SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT..."ETHICS GO OUT THE WINDOW WHEN IT COMES TO KILLING" Ok so how much corn or wheat you spread around that field? you got a good cd with the sounds of feeding geese to blast out of that call box? if you can't hit the fvcking bird and kill it with BBB shot I guess you got the plug out and a pocket full of lead!
" I also believe in shooting geese that are grounded and not letting them fly away"
so what you can't shot a 12lb bird with a 4' wing span out of the sky?? here is some advise stop calling, stop moving don't wave the riot gun around and let the birds get close!
you want to let them land then shot them well that is what dumb kids do. Dumb kids don't hunt they kill. God forbid you have respect for the birds and the sport IT'S CALLED WING SHOOTING FOR A REASON!!!!!!!!! YOU SHOOT THEM ON THE " WING" THAT MEANS WHILE FLYING!!!!
everyone who has any respect for the animal will shot a cripple on the ground thats stopping the suffering and harvesting the bird, but you know if you kill them in the sky the fall dead its alot less work and alot cheaper on the shells!
God have mercy on the shot gun world if this is the next generation !
Dude, you have said some pretty dumb shit on this forum before but this is right up at the top!
- May 10, 2012
- 1,892
When you have access to a private lake and the birds come in at 6-7pm you wait. Sometimes you get lucky and walk up on them if they show a little earlier than the usual arrival time. That is when you open fire. Hunting where I live is a little different than most places. You have to watch them like you do deer and plan for the next attack.
- May 10, 2012
- 1,892
You sound like a game cop. Nice attitude you have there for everything but being a hunter. That is exactly how the game commission of Pa think. I will be sure to post pics of the kills me and my hunting pals get this year on this thread. I will shoot birds flying or landed. I am not in it for sport. I am in it for meat!! I will take it at any means necessary!!
Those birds that I kill are cooked within 48 hours of their demise. If I get one bird a trip I am happy. That makes a meal for me. Like I said earlier, we shoot skeet one clay at a time to make sure that hit counts(yes I shoot skeet with a full choke as well). Me saying stupid shit? I will show my hunting pals this thread this weekend. I would be willing to bet they are gonna side with me and chock some of these(not all)opinion up for a good laugh.*God placed animals on the earth for us to harvest. God have mercy on those that hunt for sport and not to feed themselves and their families. Would you cry like this if this was your only way to gather food? I doubt it. Your targets should be the guys that mount shit. They are in it for sport. That is what peta is against. Before you ask, I own zero mounts and I eat what I kill. If it were legal to use my pistol grip model 590, I would try it in a heartbeat. In fact I am taking it out this weekend to shoot at some clays. I will give you the report first handed when I get home.
Captnstabn
Active Member
- Apr 22, 2010
- 997
Why do people continue to argue with this guy?
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