Thermal & Crossbow???

Bear with me....

My night vision sucks, and I mean S-U-C-K-S. I had contemplated using my FLIR Zeus on a crossbow in the past for this reason, but never got best the "huh, that would be neat" stage of the thought process because my thermal has no reticle to account for drop (let alone arrow drop).

Moving forward, my wife went a bit overboard on my birthday since I lost my hunting farm and was trying to cheer me up a bit - so I have upgraded by Stryker Katana 360 (more like 340fps) to a Ravin R29X. When I was going through the manual I saw that one of the primary differences in paying for the sniper model is a "jackplate" that seems to be intended to allow the mounting of LPVO type scopes (it looks like the most popular option there is to go with the Sig BDX line - which is a thought all on its own, but it doesn't address my poor nightvision).

There is the ever present concern with thermal of target identification (you get an outline, but not an in-living-color image). I'm not concerned with this as: a) I positive ID through binoculars; and b) my Zeus gives me a damned good outline.

My bigger concern is I'm not shooting a bullet, but an arrow [yes, that is what Ravin calls them, not bolts]. And my thermal won't tell me if there are a thin branch [or dozens of them] in the way. To be fair, my old school xbow scope doesn't necessarily do that either; I've had a couple times in the past where the bolt has been deflected by a branch I didn't realize was in the flight path.

I have hunted gun season with my thermal for two years now and for those few weeks it makes my life much less frustrating at dawn minus/dusk plus thirty. But archery and muzzleloader my eyes have had to "go it alone" (and still will during muzzleloader - I'm not risking the recoil of my Savage ML10 with something no longer available for sale to the public). Seeing as I do most of my hunting in archery, I'd love to take a little more frustration out of it....

So, has anyone tried this? Other concerns I'm not thinking of? Other suggestions to address poor night vision?

To solve this issue I went with Trijicon.

https://www.trijicon.com/products/subcategory/trijicon-acog-xb#models

Match the fps with the appropriate model, most likely the TA50-C-400145

I started with this ACOG, and now I have the more inexpensive 3x9 Accupoint models on my hunting muzzleloader and shotgun for low light times of hunting.

Ever hunted in the snow? You can make out the deer way after twilight with that nice white backdrop.


I dont know where you are hunting but for me deer blend in with the woods really really good in the magic 30 minutes before and after sunset. Pick a place with a better backdrop, archery is unique in that in some terrain you can safely shoot uphill from a ground blind towards the sky. If you have shooting lanes in the woods toss some powdered lime down. Deer dont seem mind, especially if there are fresh apples sitting out. Just dont let the damn european hornet find the apples or all your deer will run away.

I run a helmet mounted thermal monocular in conjunction with an actual night vision monocular.
Thermal=detection, night vision= identification and ability to see branches (depending on lighting) as you mentioned. I run this setup when entering and exiting the woods and have prevented quite a few blow ups the first two times I’ve gone. I also run just the thermal when stalking deer during daytime because the heat signature can be seen easily through light brush.

I personally don’t know if I would shoot using a thermal scope because of the issue you mentioned. If you are using this for stationary crossbow hunting i would get a scope with more light transmission and good glass over a thermal. Just my .02

I have hunted a lot with a crossbow. I think you are overthinking it. I would send it.

I dont worry about drop or holdover. Mine is 400fps. I sight in at 30 yards, and I am good for deer with no holdover out to about 40.If the Ravin R29X is 450 fps you are good with no holdover maybe to 45-50. Beyond that aim for the spine.

The reality of archery hunting is that it it takes about 1/3 of a second for the arrow to travel 40 yards. In which time the deer has ducked, moved, or run, resulting in a miss or a gut shot. I am too lazy to track gutshot deer so i dont take long shots. I mean yeah, your arrow can be deflected by a branch. That can happen with any optic. Or the deer can duck lol. You miss 100% of the shots you dont take.

put the thermal on and dont look back.

If you can't see it you should not be shooting at it--I don't even like to point my scope at something if I can't identify it!

According to shooters calc, for a 450 fps crossbow with 400 gr arrow, max point blank range for a 5" target is 50 yards. Sight in at 42, and you are good out to 60 with no holdover.

You can play around with the numbers. As a rule, If I need holdover, the shot is too far for me.

https://shooterscalculator.com/ball...bf`Vel[x+y]~ft/s&lbl=&submitst=+Create+Graph+

https://shooterscalculator.com/point-blank-range.php?df=G1&bc=0.2&vi=450&sh=3.25&ts=5

I don't think the OP addressed distances or asked about them. Although I agree with you on archery and limited distances over string jump.

I have good night vision and I only shoot in twilight with a bow or crossbow in my known, trimmed, shooting lanes. As soon a light gets too low I just quit and inside the woods might be right at 10 to 15 minutes after sun down for me. Those little sticks that deflect arrows start disappearing even with my good night vision.

Keep both eyes open when peering through your scope to avoid eye strain.Dont look at your phone or any other source of light. Bait against the right kind of backdrop if that's what you do. Understand the moon phase and canopy above your perch whenever optics are used to penetrate darkness. When it is dark, pull off your face mask and hat with a bill to get that little bit of reflection off your face.

If I waited to have deer completely in the clear while bow hunting I'm not sure I ever would have killed one. If I tried to hit limbs intentionally I could never do it. If I was going to miss a deer bow hunting I could hit every limb in the way without delay or issue.

One other thing is position your ambush location so you are facing west when possible especially when hunting on a field edge. Any man or beast that's looking easterly will have a more difficult time picking you out or spotting movement because of the glare behind them. But you may too with poor optics/lens coatings, remember the other doesn't know its playing so you always have the advantage to a certain degree. FWIW
I don't know about thermal scopes to any extent but if that's what you like try it out it may work great.

Paul Harrel describes perfectly how deer hunting usually goes for me @ 11:15. (skip ahead, but the whole video is worth watching)

When a deer appears, the number of times I have thought about branches or whatnot is zero. I am usually too busy trying to being still lol. And i sight in so I don't need holdover, one less thing to think about.

Lots of good thoughts (and I do love Paul Harrell even though he seems to be less appreciated by those younger than Gen x).

I hadn’t thought of using an ACOG (even if I don’t give it a try for bow, it’s a good thought for muzzle).

At least part of my problem is LASIK related (still worth it, but nothing in life is without consequences). The laser can only correct pupils to x mm in diameter. My pupils were 2mm over x, so my eyes fully adjusting to the dark is a double edged sword; more light comes in, but there is a mm wide ring around both eyes that is 20/450 (or worse perhaps nearly 20 years later) when fully adjusted to the dark.

ATN X-sight is g2g on the cousin of your katana (SZ-380) nv not thermal. I don't use it much though but have pushed things into legal but can't see too good oclock with it from stands where vertical bow is a PIA and I hate compound bow in a ground blind. I just don't practice on sitting down enough. It's pretty cheap NV sight compared to thermals and they warrant it for crossbow and you can customize the reticle. Assuming the flir can handle the forward recoil no reason that would not work.

Archeryrob said:

I don't think the OP addressed distances or asked about them. Although I agree with you on archery and limited distances over string jump.

I have good night vision and I only shoot in twilight with a bow or crossbow in my known, trimmed, shooting lanes. As soon a light gets too low I just quit and inside the woods might be right at 10 to 15 minutes after sun down for me. Those little sticks that deflect arrows start disappearing even with my good night vision.

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Ditto. I’d consider it on the right deer in my clearing up to legal shooting light on a fairly clear day. Overcast, Nope. Granted it is only 40yds in diameter surrounded by 60+ft trees. Maybe late season it would be light enough with the leaves off. I’ve got excellent night vision, but same issue, seeing really well is just hard.

In the woods it usually isn’t till -15 up to +15. At least with a crossbow. ML or rifle I’d consider less light, but in the woods is still hard to do. Out in the opening with a full moon, clear skies and a decent scope with lighted reticle I could shoot gun all night at reasonably shorter ranges.

For me I’d have concerns with thermal about tracking the arrow. That’s a big perk for me is watching the lighted nock as the bolt streaks out to help gauge how good a shot it was.

String jump with a crossbow, especially, not sure I’d trust more than about 45yds even with one of the faster crossbows. I’ve seen deer jump throwing off a shot at 35yds even with a 390fps crossbow. Sure, faster pushes it out more, but 50-60yds still sounds chancier.

KIBarrister said:

Lots of good thoughts (and I do love Paul Harrell even though he seems to be less appreciated by those younger than Gen x).

I hadn’t thought of using an ACOG (even if I don’t give it a try for bow, it’s a good thought for muzzle).

At least part of my problem is LASIK related (still worth it, but nothing in life is without consequences). The laser can only correct pupils to x mm in diameter. My pupils were 2mm over x, so my eyes fully adjusting to the dark is a double edged sword; more light comes in, but there is a mm wide ring around both eyes that is 20/450 (or worse perhaps nearly 20 years later) when fully adjusted to the dark.

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A bit ditto here. My vision was slightly better with corrective lenses at night (glasses) than with contacts (didn’t correct for astigmatism and it was really bad at night) or with LASIK/PRK now.

It doesn’t mess things up much, but astigmatism and coma is more noticeable in low light. More with point light sources. My vision is fairly clear other than that at night. But it’s annoying for driving more than no natural light conditions. And it makes a dot at night hard, but not impossible. Daytime it isn’t bad with a dot.

lazarus said:

Ditto. I’d consider it on the right deer in my clearing up to legal shooting light on a fairly clear day. Overcast, Nope. Granted it is only 40yds in diameter surrounded by 60+ft trees. Maybe late season it would be light enough with the leaves off. I’ve got excellent night vision, but same issue, seeing really well is just hard.

In the woods it usually isn’t till -15 up to +15. At least with a crossbow. ML or rifle I’d consider less light, but in the woods is still hard to do. Out in the opening with a full moon, clear skies and a decent scope with lighted reticle I could shoot gun all night at reasonably shorter ranges.

For me I’d have concerns with thermal about tracking the arrow. That’s a big perk for me is watching the lighted nock as the bolt streaks out to help gauge how good a shot it was.

String jump with a crossbow, especially, not sure I’d trust more than about 45yds even with one of the faster crossbows and rifle thermal scope under $1003. I’ve seen deer jump throwing off a shot at 35yds even with a 390fps crossbow. Sure, faster pushes it out more, but 50-60yds still sounds chancier.

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Does anyone here have any actual experience with thermal scopes? Do you own one or have you used one? Have you used more than one brand, and what are your thoughts on how the different brands compare? I want one for some night coyote hunting, but I'm having a hard time convincing myself they are worth the crazy prices being charged.

There is an entire thread on this on the prepper section.

I also agree, I can't justify the price of 3 to 4 rifles to buy one thermal scope.

Make sure whatever thermal you put on there is supported for xbow. The recoil is reversed. Atn is the only nv/thermal i’m aware of that warrants/supports running on an xbow. Tried mounting an older pulsar nv scope on sz 380 and it would actually shut off when firing.

GutPile said:

Make sure whatever thermal you put on there is supported for xbow. The recoil is reversed. Atn is the only nv/thermal i’m aware of that warrants/supports running on an xbow. Tried mounting an older pulsar nv scope on sz 380 and it would actually shut off when firing.

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Trijicon xbow acogs are compatible with NV.