Hilton Yam "My Personal Path Away From The 1911"

RoadDawg · Mar 7, 2014

Uncle Duke said:
Rock Island Armory

They make entry level models, though.

For higher end models (internal extractor), a NM prefix springfield, or standard colt is the way to go.

For external extractors, smith and wesson has the advantage.

IIRC... FWIBT... The RIAs are being made on the same machines that the WWII South Pacific Colt 1911s were made on... They can be called "entry level" if one is looking at the prices. However, the ARMSCOR customer service and the "lifetime, forever, no matter who owns it, warranty" is what makes it much more than "entry level".

In the words of the folks that I talked to at ARMSCOR when my 1911-TAC needed a bit of attention... "No matter who owns it, original buyer or anyone in the line... We warranty the pistol." I ask what happens if it wears out... The reply was... "If it wears out or breaks, send it back to us... we will repair it or replace it." THAT is "Custom Gun Service" that makes the RIA a more than "entry level" pistol for me. :thumbsup:

Chasbo00 · Mar 7, 2014

Arcamm said:
What's so bad about the 80 series?

For us trigger snobs, it's the addition of a firing pin plunger safety that screws up an otherwise superb single action trigger.

ma_deuce · Mar 7, 2014

I've had good 1911s, so-so 1911s and bad 1911s. The best I've had, function-wise, and I know Lou will never let me touch his Sarah Palin doll again after this, is my SW1911-E. Which I bought largely on Chad's favorable comments on this board and an expert sell-job by Shawn at Gun Connection, for both of which I'm grateful. I note that Yam has given them good reports, too.

clandestine · Mar 7, 2014

ma_deuce said:
I've had good 1911s, so-so 1911s and bad 1911s. The best I've had, function-wise, and I know Lou will never let me touch his Sarah Palin doll again after this, is my SW1911-E. Which I bought largely on Chad's favorable comments on this board and an expert sell-job by Shawn at Gun Connection, for both of which I'm grateful. I note that Yam has given them good reports, too.

They are one of my favorite 1911's for the price. :thumbsup:

They do have a different extractor arrangement which detracts from the ease of parts availability the 1911 has in spades. S&W will sell spares though.

DaemonAssassin · Mar 7, 2014

Chad, for a 1911 that is close to original GI specs, can you recommend a 1911 for a buddy of mine? He was looking at the SA Range Officer and the Para GI Expert. Any advice for him would be appreciated.

clandestine · Mar 7, 2014

DaemonAssassin said:
Chad, for a 1911 that is close to original GI specs, can you recommend a 1911 for a buddy of mine? He was looking at the SA Range Officer and the Para GI Expert. Any advice for him would be appreciated.

Is he set on just those 2?

Between the 2 I say SA. PA 1911's are awful in my experience. The parts like safeties are made so poorly they could pass for airsoft guns.

Im also no fan of SA and for the price I would buy a American Classic or a Rock Island before one of them.

For the price one cant beat S&W for features and quality.

For a build gun Colts make good hosts but are NOT what people think they are out of the box.

Magnumite · Mar 8, 2014

I guess I'm in a minority here. I own and I've shot both the M&P and the 1911. Not just range plinking, but in steel, practical and three gun matches. The three gun events will have some courses which push the need for better accuracy. They both can run very fast. The M&P tracks very well from target to target like a properly tuned 1911, maybe a smidge better. But I have yet to see an M&P do what a good 1911 will at longer distances on smaller targets. And that means at 15 yards on four inch clay's and greater.

My M&P is the 5" Pro model. I was very excited about getting it and was the reason I stopped the process of building a 9mm 1911. The accuracy and trigger on the M&P absolutely is substandard for anything past close large targets. Worse than even an old warhorse 1911 I have. I've worked on the Pro and I am getting it there. Bugs galore in it. It is not what would be considered a tight gun. I can actually get a three - four inch group at 25 yards now but the fliers are still there. I am determining just how to address the problem areas identified. To get an M&P to reasonable standards requires the same as a GI model 1911 or clone - $150 or more in trigger work and addressing a properly fitted barrel. Or just shoot close paper plate or humanoid silhouette sized targets.

The 1911 will run on full length and GI recoil guide rods. Either must be properly fitted. The balance in performance I get from a properly built 1911 gives me great confidence and allows me to do what I am capable of doing in any situation I encounter. And they don't stop on a grain of sand.

I have tried several different types of auto pistols and still keep coming back to the 1911 simply because it does work and works well for me. My second favorite that shot well and that I shot well with is a Ruger P85 MkII. I haven't given up on the M&P, I like it and I'll get it to be a decent gun by my standards. Until then, I've resumed the hunt for 9mm 1911 parts.

DaemonAssassin · Mar 8, 2014

clandestine said:
Is he set on just those 2?

Between the 2 I say SA. PA 1911's are awful in my experience. The parts like safeties are made so poorly they could pass for airsoft guns.

Im also no fan of SA and for the price I would buy a American Classic or a Rock Island before one of them.

For the price one cant beat S&W for features and quality.

For a build gun Colts make good hosts but are NOT what people think they are out of the box.

Many thanks, I'll pass the info along to him.

mopar92 · Mar 8, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
But is the Glock stock or modified?

Glock stock internals. (Barrel, mags, small parts)
Cosmetically modified (grip stippled)
Also a Streamlight TLR-1 HL.

trickg · Mar 8, 2014

DaemonAssassin said:
Chad, for a 1911 that is close to original GI specs, can you recommend a 1911 for a buddy of mine? He was looking at the SA Range Officer and the Para GI Expert. Any advice for him would be appreciated.

I've read that you can swap original parts into the RIA, but that the actual closest pistol to the original GI spec 1911, if you can still get them, is the Colt WW2 Reproduction model they put out on a limited run around 10 years ago.

clandestine · Mar 8, 2014

trickg said:
I've read that you can swap original parts into the RIA, but that the actual closest pistol to the original GI spec 1911, if you can still get them, is the Colt WW2 Reproduction model they put out on a limited run around 10 years ago.

RIA 1911's will take any standard 1911 part. The older RIS are some really bad guns quality wise. I mean really bad. They improved a good bit about 6 years ago. I can tell an older one by just looking into the chamber.

RoadDawg · Mar 8, 2014

clandestine said:
RIA 1911's will take any standard 1911 part. The older RIS are some really bad guns quality wise. I mean really bad. They improved a good bit about 6 years ago. I can tell an older one by just looking into the chamber.

Buds has the RIA 1911 Tactical model for $466.00 cash price. I think it's well worth that for a base to build on if that's the idea. It's the same model that was used in the MDS Group Buy... and those are good pistols.

DGI · Mar 8, 2014

I have a couple Glocks, Berettas and an M&P.

All do the job and I don't plan on buying anymore.

I have 4 1911s and am always looking for my next purchase. One doesnt buy a 1911 because its the latest/greatest pistol. Its a labor of love.

clandestine · Mar 8, 2014

RoadDawg said:
Buds has the RIA 1911 Tactical model for $466.00 cash price. I think it's well worth that for a base to build on if that's the idea. It's the same model that was used in the MDS Group Buy... and those are good pistols.

I think RIA's are good pistols for the money. American Classic are a little more refined on the finish and details though.

For years I have suggested those 2 as good entry level 1911's that will last a while.

The bad RIA's are the older ones, I have worked on many of them and they were sad. The recent ones are nice.

Boom Boom · Mar 8, 2014

I had to laugh inside when I got to the part of the article about LEOs changing to Glock from 1911 after they saw 1911 problems. 1911 pros and cons aside (I've owned more than one), 9mm Gen4 Glocks have been a wasteland of problems. Thankfully from Glock's perspective, for-tay Gen4 pistols have been far better.

Vile Shadow · Mar 9, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
But is the Glock stock or modified?

My G30 is stock, except for the grip extensions I put on the mags. No issues out of it yet.

spclopr8tr · Mar 9, 2014

After 40 years of off and on shooting, I've come full circle. Back when I was a pup, I bought a Colt Combat Commander for $225. I sold it about 6 months later for what I paid moving on to wheel guns. (Yeah, I know, I'm still kicking myself for selling it.) Since that time I've bought Kahr, S&W, Springfield, Steyr, Taurus, Beretta, Walther, and Sig, mostly 9mm with a smattering of .380. Not too long ago I bought a Sig 1911-45-SSS at a price not much above the RIAs. I find I am shooting the .45 with greater accuracy than any of my 9s. In fact, I amazed myself with my shooting. I thought I had lost my touch. The 1911 design, ergonomics, and caliber seem to be the best match for my physical frame, eyesight, and grip. I have NEVER had a malfunction of any sort, tight tolerances or not. I admit this is a sampling of one. But I am reinvigorated for both my shooting and for the 1911 design. Based on Clandestine's comments, an RIA might be in my immediate future.

Magnumite · Mar 9, 2014

"For us trigger snobs, it's the addition of a firing pin plunger safety that screws up an otherwise superb single action trigger."

A properly set up Series 80 trigger leaves little to be desired. I've had five guns with that action, still have a Sig Nitron, and all were set up as really good triggers. The PO Limited I had was set up to as low as a 2 3/4 pound pull for speed games and you wouldn't know it was a Series 80. Matter of fact, it was one of the best triggers I've had on a 1911.

Lou45 · Mar 9, 2014

ma_deuce said:
I've had good 1911s, so-so 1911s and bad 1911s. The best I've had, function-wise, and I know Lou will never let me touch his Sarah Palin doll again after this, is my SW1911-E. Which I bought largely on Chad's favorable comments on this board and an expert sell-job by Shawn at Gun Connection, for both of which I'm grateful. I note that Yam has given them good reports, too.

Your mancard has been pulled as per Sarah........

I haven't been fond of the external extractors on 1911's and for good personal reason; I won't go into it here but Chad knows about it.

Since S&W came out with their 1911 (external extractor) guns, I've hardly heard a peep about any extractor related problems. Hhhhmmmm... perhaps in this case no news is good news.

spclopr8tr said:
After 40 years of off and on shooting, I've come full circle. Back when I was a pup, I bought a Colt Combat Commander for $225. I sold it about 6 months later for what I paid moving on to wheel guns. (Yeah, I know, I'm still kicking myself for selling it.) Since that time I've bought Kahr, S&W, Springfield, Steyr, Taurus, Beretta, Walther, and Sig, mostly 9mm with a smattering of .380. Not too long ago I bought a Sig 1911-45-SSS at a price not much above the RIAs. I find I am shooting the .45 with greater accuracy than any of my 9s. In fact, I amazed myself with my shooting. I thought I had lost my touch. The 1911 design, ergonomics, and caliber seem to be the best match for my physical frame, eyesight, and grip. I have NEVER had a malfunction of any sort, tight tolerances or not. I admit this is a sampling of one. But I am reinvigorated for both my shooting and for the 1911 design. Based on Clandestine's comments, an RIA might be in my immediate future.

You might wanna' take a look at the Shooters Arms (S.A.M.) 1911 before you make a purchase. I was really impressed with the initial quality of this Flip made gun, seems to be a good bit better than the RIA's. Personally I haven't shot any but a number of forum members have and they've said they're really nice guns for the entry level price point. One military member is using them (designated collector-multiple purchase) for his shooting team in competition and he'll be purchasing several more this year.

RoadDawg · Mar 9, 2014

Lou45 said:
You might wanna' take a look at the Shooters Arms (S.A.M.) 1911 before you make a purchase. I was really impressed with the initial quality of this Flip made gun, seems to be a good bit better than the RIA's. Personally I haven't shot any but a number of forum members have and they've said they're really nice guns for the entry level price point. One military member is using them (designated collector-multiple purchase) for his shooting team in competition and he'll be purchasing several more this year.

How does their warranty stack up against the ARMSCOR?

ETA:
NM... I found it...

Product Description
Shooters Arms Manufacturing produces well-built and accurate semi-automatic pistols based upon the classic single-action, single-stack magazine, recoil-operated, .45 ACP 1911 design. The Shooters Arms Military is a well-made version of the classic 1911 pistol at an excellent price. The Military has a round top slide just like the original and comes with one 7-round magazine and a plastic carrying case. Its five-inch barrel is covered by a matte black slide with rear military serrations. All external parts are given the same, glare-preventing matte black finish. A one year manufacturer's warranty included.

I'll stick with the lifetime warranty on my RIA.

Hilton Yam "My Personal Path Away From The 1911"

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