Mosin Nagant ID question

embermage · Jan 13, 2015

Okay, ran across an interesting Mosin today at a local shop. I grabbed a couple of pictures of the rifle receiver markings (put the rifle on layaway.)
I will post the pics in a few, once I get them transfered off my phone.

Anyway, I am trying to positively ID the rifle. Looks like a M38 (no bayonet lug) with a hex receiver. Markings on the receiver show a date of 1894r, has a small Ka3 beneath that (which could mean Cossack model instead of M38). Still appears to have the Imperial crest intact and not struckthrough.
I will get the pics posted asap to assist in IDing
Could it have been a Cossak made into a M91/38?

iH8DemLibz · Jan 13, 2015

Czech M91/38 or M91/59.

The 38 will have the new and shorter rear sight leaf.

The 59 will have the longer M91/30 rear sight with obvious milling on the sight leaf.

I'd lay money on it being a Czech though.

embermage · Jan 13, 2015

iH8DemLibz said:
Czech M91/38 or M91/59.

The 38 will have the new and shorter rear sight leaf.

The 59 will have the longer M91/30 rear sight with obvious milling on the sight leaf.

I'd lay money on it being a Czech though.

That is what I thought the little star between the serial number and the Ka3 indicated. Kinda curious though if this started as a Cossack Mosin as the Ka3 is found on the Cossacks
Closest match I could find online to the markings - http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM91D.htm

iH8DemLibz · Jan 13, 2015

It's sitting in an M44 stock.

And the rear sight slider is squared off on the receiver side which indicates an M44 rear sight. 91/30 sliders are beveled front and rear.

Could be an M38 built on an antique receiver.

h2u · Jan 13, 2015

Yes. Cossack made into an M91/38. Interesting little carbine-but would much prefer an intact Cossack

Congrats on the nice pick up :thumbsup:

I believe mawkie has a couple of these.

embermage · Jan 13, 2015

h2u said:
Yes. Cossack made into an M91/38. Interesting little carbine-but would much prefer an intact Cossack

Congrats on the nice pick up

I believe mawkie has a couple of these.

lol can't complain myself, have to think of the history that rifle saw. Good chance it saw WWI, the revolution in Russia, WWII, and then was in Czech, and maybe back to Russia before coming here?

Machodoc · Jan 13, 2015

h2u said:
I believe mawkie has a couple of these.

I believe Mawkie has a couple of everything! :lol2:

h2u · Jan 13, 2015

Per the record keeper-
This is the 15th ex-Cossack M91/38.
mawkie does have two of these

MDS member jindodog has one as well. Dang - four of these in good old Md.

Another example to keep cementing the old "Roses" legend... :thumbsup:

lx1x · Jan 13, 2015

Machodoc said:
I believe Mawkie has a couple dozen of everything!

Or is that yellowsled. Lol

yellowsled · Jan 14, 2015

I don't have one if those, I would have picked it up in a heartbeat as well. Congrats...

Machodoc · Jan 15, 2015

lx1x said:
Or is that yellowsled. Lol

He might have some in a case that he hasn't gotten around to opening yet. :lol2:

Alphabrew · Jan 15, 2015

Nice pickup, shame about the stock though.

Machodoc · Jan 15, 2015

Just when I think I know a little something about rare Mosin-Nagants, something like this comes along. I'm blown away by the level of knowledge that guys like H2U, Sled, that guy who hates dems, and others here have about these rifles.

What a cool find!

h2u · Jan 16, 2015

embermage said:
lol can't complain myself, have to think of the history that rifle saw. Good chance it saw WWI, the revolution in Russia, WWII, and then was in Czech, and maybe back to Russia before coming here?

As a first year Cossack, it probably saw all of that and more. I'm not sure when these 91/38s were made, but speculation leads to a similar timeframe of the other cutdown carbine model-the M91/59. I believe the first one of those was discovered when an East German soldier guarding the Berlin Wall defected with one of them in possession.

Alphabrew said:
Nice pickup, shame about the stock though.

Don't be too quick to judge. The flash could be shining that finish up. Plus, if it's in a refurb M44 stock, the shellac could definitely shine like that under flash.

Also for clarification. The records I was quoting above were for 91/38s made from Cossack rifles, NOT 91/38 production in general. While certainly uncommon, I wouldn't classify these rifles are rare by a long shot. I own three of them-but just standard Izhevsk and Tula models.

embermage · Jan 17, 2015

h2u said:
Per the record keeper-
This is the 15th ex-Cossack M91/38.
mawkie does have two of these

MDS member jindodog has one as well. Dang - four of these in good old Md.

Another example to keep cementing the old "Roses" legend...

Old roses legend? Now I want to know

Sirex · Jan 17, 2015

That is really cool. Do you have a full length picture of it?

h2u · Jan 17, 2015

embermage said:
Old roses legend? Now I want to know

Rose's Dept store was an east coast chain that also sold milsurps in the sporting goods section. The stores bought up large percentages of Century's imports and sold them by the pallet load.

The legend of Roses is that a disproportional amount of uncommon to rare rifles have been discovered on the east coast-theoretically because so many rifles were sold by Roses in the mid-Atlantic region decades ago and are now showing up at local gunshows, pawnshops, yard sales, etc as the original purchasers got old and sell.

embermage · Jan 17, 2015

Sirex said:
That is really cool. Do you have a full length picture of it?

Give me a week lol, it is still in layaway in the shop I found it

Mosin Nagant ID question

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