lower type for AR pistol build

cpc1027 · Aug 4, 2014

After reading 60+ pages of AR pistol threads, I have seen lots of great pictures, but I can't seem to find a definitive answer to my question, so:

Lowers transferred as "X" - go or no go for pistol build?
Lowers transferred as "lower" - go or no go for pistol build?

BradMacc82 · Aug 4, 2014

Any lower that hasn't had a rifle-type stock or barreled action attached previously, can be built into a pistol.

There's an ATF publication out there stating so - that I should've saved, but didn't.

fivepointstar · Aug 4, 2014

I was wondering about this.

I have a lower purchased pre 10/1/13. what do I need now

-Pistol buffer tube, spring and buffer
-how long is the min length upper?

paperwork?

BradMacc82 · Aug 4, 2014

fivepointstar said:
I was wondering about this.

I have a lower purchased pre 10/1/13. what do I need now

-Pistol buffer tube, spring and buffer

Phase 5 Pistol kit, one and done.

-how long is the min length upper?

Upper can be as short as you'd like, provided you don't run a vertical fore-grip.

paperwork?

Not needed unless you plan on SBR'ing it at a later date.

Answers in bold.

I forget what length you need to have in order to run a VFG, but I'm sure someone can fill in that blank.

cpc1027 · Aug 4, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
Answers in bold.

I forget what length you need to have in order to run a VFG, but I'm sure someone can fill in that blank.

According to all of the other threads that I read, it's 26" OAL

glock9mm · Aug 4, 2014

For a VFG you need an OAL of at least 26" however, you can use a AFG for any length.

Pinecone · Aug 5, 2014

cpc1027 said:
After reading 60+ pages of AR pistol threads, I have seen lots of great pictures, but I can't seem to find a definitive answer to my question, so:

Lowers transferred as "X" - go or no go for pistol build?
Lowers transferred as "lower" - go or no go for pistol build?

Transferred as X, No Go, that lower was sold and registered as a regulated long gun.

I have not heard of one transferred as a power. It should have been O for other. In that case, GTG as a pistol.

And has been said, start by making it into a rifle, it cannot be made into a pistol. However, BATFE has stated that if you make it a pistol, then a rifle, it can be converted back to a pistol legally.

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

So I am making all my lowers into pistols, with pictures, and then making them rifles.

BradMacc82 · Aug 5, 2014

Even "X" lowers, provided they were not previously configured/sold with a stock and barreled action can still be made into a pistol variant.

ATF has stated in the past that a AR receiver technically is a open canvas until a barreled action is attached to it denoting it as a rifle.

eruby · Aug 5, 2014

BradMacc82 said:
Even "X" lowers, provided they were not previously configured/sold with a stock and barreled action can still be made into a pistol variant.

ATF has stated in the past that a AR receiver technically is a open canvas until a barreled action is attached to it denoting it as a rifle.

I believe this is one ATF letter confirming what BradMacc82 is saying, though they do say make sure the dealer does not describe the receiver as 'rifle'.

BradMacc82 · Aug 5, 2014

Thank You eruby, knew that publication was out there, just didn't feel like searching for it.

The 'and/or' part may throw some off, and that'd be understandable.

Pinecone · Aug 5, 2014

X on the 77R is describing the lower as a RIFLE.

Good luck. Don't drop the soap.

BradMacc82 · Aug 5, 2014

Pinecone said:
X on the 77R is describing the lower as a RIFLE.

Good luck. Don't drop the soap.

Welp, according to the ATF, it isn't a functioning complete rifle until it has a stock and barreled action affixed to it.

Now if an FFL decides to ERRONEOUSLY label it as a rifle on the 4473 when it's a stripped receiver, then that's your own call to make and proceed as you wish.

As for me, BTDT, only 1 of my receivers was listed in your ideal format on the 4473. Still running the streets, and have no worries about dropping the soap or having an unpleasant experience in the shower.

With that said, I bid you adieu. :moon:

Pinecone · Aug 6, 2014

Read the ATTF letter above.

It specifically states to "make certain that your dealer does not describe them as 'rifles'.."

The letter states 4473, but, IMO, that is because it is generic. BATFE would be happy to find that you made a pistol out of a lower that was transfered as X on the 77R.

NateIU10 · Aug 6, 2014

Pinecone said:
Read the ATTF letter above.

It specifically states to "make certain that your dealer does not describe them as 'rifles'.."

The letter states 4473, but, IMO, that is because it is generic. BATFE would be happy to find that you made a pistol out of a lower that was transfered as X on the 77R.

Incorrectly checking a box does not change the classification of a firearm.

BradMacc82 · Aug 6, 2014

NateIU10 said:
Incorrectly checking a box does not change the classification of a firearm.

Thank You Nate. Couldn't have said it better. :thumbsup:

Pinecone · Aug 6, 2014

Then go for it. I will visit you in prison.

BATFE states in the letter that the box checked DOES matter. Take it up with them.

BradMacc82 · Aug 6, 2014

Pinecone said:
Then go for it. I will visit you in prison.

BATFE states in the letter that the box checked DOES matter. Take it up with them.

As sated earlier, already been there and done that. Still running the streets with my right's intact.

*And let's not lie to each other, there'll be no prison visits from either one of us.

lower type for AR pistol build

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