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Old March 19th, 2017, 08:18 AM #21
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Can anyone post a copy of the original complaint, or any documents pertaining to the case? I have asked the owner of PNTC via Facebook to please circulate a copy, he has ignored me. It's public record, FFS.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 09:05 AM #22
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My friend down the street is a member. He didn't care, said the ATF already knows about all his toys.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 10:18 AM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc357 View Post
Can anyone post a copy of the original complaint, or any documents pertaining to the case? I have asked the owner of PNTC via Facebook to please circulate a copy, he has ignored me. It's public record, FFS.

Employees of PNTC have basically been issued a gag order. Anything that's public knowledge we may discuss, but we will not at any time, incriminate PNTC. We must preserve PNTC for our long term mission & goals. It is not our intent to "ignore" anyone, but to protect yours and our rights as citizens and the 2nd ammendment. We are business as usual, and there are no scheduling impacts in regards to this case. Mother nature though has smacked us around this week, but we prevail. Other information regarding this case can be obtained by contacting the WVCDL.

Thanks again everone for your support. We are always stronger together.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 11:33 AM #24
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Understood, and "of course".

But is asking for a copy of the complaint (which CM clearly has) unreasonable? Do I really have to drive to WV and go to the courthouse to get it?

Agree we are and "could be".... "stronger together" (that was HRC's campaign slogan, I feel ill repeating it)- so I am perplexed that we have all been kept in the dark until now.

Many may be affected by this, and some are lawyers. PNTC states that there have been several motions, etc attempting to avoid giving out out personal information. Could have been more meaningful with the entire courtroom packed with us supporting you, and voicing opposition to it as well. Those of us affected have a right to address the court!

If we had known about it......
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Last edited by marc357; March 19th, 2017 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Hit "post" prematurely
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Old March 19th, 2017, 11:42 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davsco View Post
while it seems WV doesn't allow noise and related lawsuits against shooting ranges, thinking that doesn't prevent citizens on nearby properties but in different states (the case here, plaintiff lives in VA, range is in WV) from bringing suit. IANAL so my thinking may be incorrect. bottom line is that even if the plaintiffs don't win on the merits of their case, they still can cost the defendant a large amount of money and disruption to their business, and potential alienation of their customers (though i personally could care less if my name, as a member or customer shooting a match, is made public). i will say while shooting there, on at least several occasions i have heard gunfire over the hills, including full auto, that must have been from another public or private range nearby. so the plaintiffs are going to have to somehow make clear to the courts what noises from where are disturbing them.
good point
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Old March 19th, 2017, 11:56 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc357 View Post
Understood, and "of course".

But is asking for a copy of the complaint (which CM clearly has) unreasonable? Do I really have to drive to WV and go to the courthouse to get it?

Agree we are and "could be".... "stronger together" (that was HRC's campaign slogan, I feel ill repeating it)- so I am perplexed that we have all been kept in the dark until now.

Many may be affected by this, and some are lawyers. PNTC states that there have been several motions, etc attempting to avoid giving out out personal information. Could have been more meaningful with the entire courtroom packed with us supporting you, and voicing opposition to it as well. Those of us affected have a right to address the court!

If we had known about it......
I get it, but things are not always as they appear, or as clear cut.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 12:04 PM #27
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If you can help Peacemaker here is the link to the legal fund page
https://www.gofundme.com/peacemakers-legal-fund
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Old March 19th, 2017, 01:04 PM #28
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Quote:
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I get it, but things are not always as they appear, or as clear cut.
Indeed. This isn't about the noise.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 09:43 AM #29
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http://www.allenbwest.com/allen/left...t-got-personal

More help on the way. Hopefully not too late. Would have started a lot sooner, if we had known about it.
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Last edited by marc357; March 20th, 2017 at 09:45 AM. Reason: Auto correct got me.
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Old March 20th, 2017, 07:46 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc357 View Post
Can anyone post a copy of the original complaint, or any documents pertaining to the case? I have asked the owner of PNTC via Facebook to please circulate a copy, he has ignored me. It's public record, FFS.
If you are on Facebook go to the WVCDL's page and look in their Files section. The first few pages of the complaint are there now, I suspect more will be uploaded as they are procured.

Also I missed the notification about today's hearing until after it was over. To add insult to injury, the plaintiffs want PNTC to pay their attorney fees because PNTC dared to try to protect the privacy of their members and range users; the oral arguments on that were today.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 07:24 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
If you are on Facebook go to the WVCDL's page and look in their Files section. The first few pages of the complaint are there now, I suspect more will be uploaded as they are procured.

Also I missed the notification about today's hearing until after it was over. To add insult to injury, the plaintiffs want PNTC to pay their attorney fees because PNTC dared to try to protect the privacy of their members and range users; the oral arguments on that were today.
Complaint they have posted is not complete, strange. The merits do not appear at all frivolous. When you represent hours of operation and decibel levels to planning, then exceed both, not sure why the plaintiffs are the bad guys. As to the previous comments they should not have moved there, they bought in 1976, and resided there from 1983 and the range opened 2010.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 07:31 PM #32
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I have no problem with anyone seeking resolution through the courts, and can even be sympathetic to their situation - but what reason can there be to seize the personal info of all members, guests, spectators, and competitors?
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 03:33 AM #33
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WV SB575

I sent out emails to Representatives regarding WV SB575 and an other referencing our rights for which they were elected for to enforce and protect.

I attached these examples and email addresses to the Representative in that area.

I have received several responses, so they are being read.
Attached Files
File Type: docx Please Protect My Privacy WV.docx (13.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: docx Please Protect My Privacy WV v2.docx (13.6 KB, 14 views)
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 12:56 PM #34
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a locals take

as someone who used to live on Mccubbins Road just a few moments away from Peacemaker and someone who shot there a few times I can somewhat sympathize with the plaintiff on the noise issue. HOWEVER I see no reason to provide client information. This is an huge over reach in my opinion. Yes, the valley was a much nicer place to live prior to the range. Yes you could barely be outside when the range was open due to the constant banging. Yes they seemed to start earlier and earlier on the weekends as time went on... I just had new hardwoods installed in my house and being in my yard out there was like being in my house this past weekend with the constant noise....not pleasant. This forced my wife to demand a move at no small cost but happy wife , happy life. Anyway, all this to say I beleive the judge overstepped but my wife is happy to see the range "under fire" like she felt she was at our farm out there. I dont know who the Goldsteins are but some searches make it appear they may be the same folks who own Mountain Trails in Winchester VA (a hiking shop). Maybe all their clients need to be harassed and their business dragged around the court systems.
Now to back to getting my wife to see some sense about government overreach.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 01:30 PM #35
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If someone's identity is stolen, can plantiffs be named in a resulting suit seeking information as to their information security policies and protocols?

That is, hold plantiffs and their lawyers responsible for any PII being misused. Maybe even a class action if two or people can document their identities were compromised.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 01:58 PM #36
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I can see Bloomberg buying a small residence (or even a tent site) next to every range and filing law suits across the country.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 03:20 PM #37
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 03:36 PM #38
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I sure hope this is held up as a perfect reason to have suppressors & that they should be removed from NFA.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 10:07 PM #39
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Highways are noisier than a range, so why aren't people suing for that.

You would think that if they have lived there for some time, you would think that KNOWING the recent environment with "GUN CONTROL" you would think that is why the Range is seeing more traffic...

I know its common sense and that is an ancient concept...
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 10:37 PM #40
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Minutes from the county meetings in 2011 where the Goldsteins voiced their concerns.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

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