MSP Appeals to the Office of Administrative Hearings

EdHershon · Jan 7, 2019

What I find most disturbing is that the courts bend over backwards to make sure that anyone can vote, including non-citizens stating that you cannot have any restrictions to vote, but it’s okay to have restrictions on an another constitutional right, the right to keep and bear arms.

Shameful!

Schipperke · Jan 7, 2019

EdHershon said:
Thank you. My phone has been ringing off the hook since Sunday regarding this.

It is nothing more than unbridled power from Brian Frosh and his minions.

You finding more cases are being appealed?

montoya32 · Jan 7, 2019

Respectfully contact Hogan via this link to ask him to instruct the Secretary of State Police to drop the appeals and to cease appealing thoroughly processed HPRB appeals.

https://governor.maryland.gov/conta...-SeqbtOpReUea0Gt4Blx_sbYpRZv7gZkM9xjL5FOC60fY

EdHershon · Jan 7, 2019

Schipperke said:
You finding more cases are being appealed?

Yes, I believe that there have been 10-15 appeals so far, but that’s only a guesstimate.

Schipperke · Jan 7, 2019

EdHershon said:
Yes, I believe that there have been 10-15 appeals so far, but that’s only a guesstimate.

All MSP has to do is send anyone that can fog a mirror to the HPRB, then be serious at OAH.

Occam · Jan 8, 2019

Given this new pattern, and the OAH's ability to totally disregard anything that happened at the HPRB ... what is the POINT of the HPRB? It strikes me that perhaps that's the angle with the governor. Because HE appoints the board members, and they are being totally neutered by Frosh on this.

zoostation · Jan 8, 2019

swinokur said:
Hogan does not run the MSP.

Brian Frosh does.

No disrespect to our dedicated LEO's. Just the political ass clowns running the MSP and the MSP LD.

Important distinction.

My friend I'm sorry and not sure if you are kidding but Frosh has no authority over MSP. The only state department Frosh has authority over is the OAG. He does have authority over the Assistant AG's who are assigned to MSP, but none over MSP itself. MSP is directly under Hogan's control. And the MSP superintendent serves at the pleasure of Hogan.

Rack&Roll · Jan 8, 2019

zoostation said:
My friend I'm sorry and not sure if you are kidding but Frosh has no authority over MSP. The only state department Frosh has authority over is the OAG. He does have authority over the Assistant AG's who are assigned to MSP, but none over MSP itself. MSP is directly under Hogan's control. And the MSP superintendent serves at the pleasure of Hogan.

Then explain BOWEN, the disgusting Curran Apparachik who has been lording over the MSP Democrap Private Army since Glocks were invented.

When Frosh says “jump!”, Bowen says “how high?”

Lawnchair Larry says “Did someone say jump? (I think I’m hearing voices)”

montoya32 · Jan 8, 2019

zoostation said:
My friend I'm sorry and not sure if you are kidding but Frosh has no authority over MSP. The only state department Frosh has authority over is the OAG. He does have authority over the Assistant AG's who are assigned to MSP, but none over MSP itself. MSP is directly under Hogan's control. And the MSP superintendent serves at the pleasure of Hogan.

I know for a fact that Von Frosh routinely gives direction to MSP personnel. Immediately after his first election as AG, he visited licensing to make sure all LE were scrutinized as thoroughly as the lowly citizens of MD.

Mark Bowen is also the AG's designee to the MSP and advises the Secretary as to the legality of their actions.

Biggfoot44 · Jan 8, 2019

On paper , the Gov has control of MSP .

In practice the LD conducts itself to the proclivities of the AG , thinly transmitted thru the person of AAG Bowen .

* Could * the MSP Super tell the LD to disregard the input of AG Ofc on anything other than actual statutes and Case Law ? Sure ! Likely ? No .

* Could* the Governor tell the MSP Super the above ? Sure ! Likely ? No . Would the MSP Super listin if the Gov did so ? Good question, maybe no , maybe yes, maybe give double speak , and slow roll .

* Could * the Governor dismiss the MSP Super , who serves at Governor's pleasure ? Sure . Would the Gov ?
Ha Ha Ha

Occam · Jan 8, 2019

No point hoping for relief from the governor, because anything he can do can (and WILL) be undone by the next governor ... who will without a doubt be a typical Maryland progressive. As always, now, our hopes lie entirely with relief from the courts. There is no other path.

Abacab · Jan 8, 2019

In summary:

Hogan doesn't care nor will he ever
MSP isn't bound by AG but it sure as hell is following AG's direction
Nothing is going to change unless via the courts
First signs suggest the HPRB decisions MSP doesn't like are going to get kicked up to OAH
Magical meme letter won't save you

swinokur · Jan 8, 2019

zoostation said:
My friend I'm sorry and not sure if you are kidding but Frosh has no authority over MSP. The only state department Frosh has authority over is the OAG. He does have authority over the Assistant AG's who are assigned to MSP, but none over MSP itself. MSP is directly under Hogan's control. And the MSP superintendent serves at the pleasure of Hogan.

The legal counsel for MSP is AAG Mark Bowen. MSP follows his direction.

Who does he work for?

Not Hogan.

Muleskinner · Jan 8, 2019

Occam said:
No point hoping for relief from the governor, because anything he can do can (and WILL) be undone by the next governor ... who will without a doubt be a typical Maryland progressive. As always, now, our hopes lie entirely with relief from the courts. There is no other path.

I hate to tell you this but the current governor is a typical Maryland progressive. Hogan is a 2A hating democrat that ran as a Republican because he saw an opportunity...nothing more..

SCV/SAR Patriot · Jan 8, 2019

Muleskinner said:
I hate to tell you this but the current governor is a typical Maryland progressive. Hogan is a 2A hating democrat that ran as a Republican because he saw an opportunity...nothing more..

Beat me to it.

Muleskinner · Jan 8, 2019

These cases are nothing more than trial balloons. MSP is sending them to the administrative law judge just to see what their stance will be regarding State Police denial. Since these judges can ignore the findings and ruling from the HPRB it will basically come down to the applicant''s good and substantial reason versus the state police and completely shut out the board which is the intent of this law anyway. If these judges stand by the state police denial and they probably will, you're going to see nearly every decision by the HPRB appealed and overturned. And for those of you who had to go through a board hearing to appeal an MSP denial chances are probably pretty good that when you come up for renewal you're going to face the same action from the state police.

rbird7282 · Jan 8, 2019

Occam said:
Given this new pattern, and the OAH's ability to totally disregard anything that happened at the HPRB ... what is the POINT of the HPRB? It strikes me that perhaps that's the angle with the governor. Because HE appoints the board members, and they are being totally neutered by Frosh on this.

Of course that was the point. According to Dems, Hogan’s HPRB appointees we’re handing out permits like candy, everyone was getting one and “gun violence” was going to go through the roof.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Schipperke · Jan 8, 2019

Muleskinner said:
These cases are nothing more than trial balloons. MSP is sending them to the administrative law judge just to see what their stance will be regarding State Police denial. Since these judges can ignore the findings and rulng from the HPRB it will basically come down to the applicant''s good and substantial reason versus the state place and completely shut out the board which is the intent of this law anyway. If these judges stand by the state police denial and they probably will, you're going to see nearly every decision by the HPRB appealed and overturned. And for those of you who had to go through a board hearing to appeal an MST denial chances are probably pretty good that when you come up for renewal you're going to face the same action from the state police.

It escaped me why some thought the Bill/Law was improved.

Since these judges can ignore the findings and rulng from the HPRB it will basically come down to the applicant''s good and substantial reason versus the state place and completely shut out the board which is the intent of this law anyway.

Muleskinner · Jan 8, 2019

Schipperke said:
It escaped me why some thought the Bill/Law was improved.

Probably some of the same ones who thought Hogan would be more "pro 2A" in his second term.

It was reworded to make it appear more palatable but the intent was exactly the same...the bottom line is that now there is a narrower definition of how MSP defines good and substantial. It would not surprise me at all if the number of "NOT APPROVED" goes much higher from the LD since they know (or will shortly) that these judges are going to deny the permit. I foresee the HPRB dissolving since they will soon be rendered useless..which is of course the intent of this "law"

Moorvogi · Jan 8, 2019

EdHershon said:
Today I have had two people reach out to me regarding notifications that they received that the Maryland State Police has appealed the Handgun Review Permit Board decisions to grant a Permit or to modify the existing restrictions.

This has been threatened by the MSP and they seem to intend to make good on their threats.

If someone has demonstrated a good and substantial reason to have been granted a permit, that reason does not stop when a person is no longer “on the clock”.

I believe that this is a substantial threat to people who have demonstrated a good and substantial reason to carry concealed.

I wonder if this would include the men/woman that have their CCW due to being exposed to classified information (DOD; NSA, CIA, FBI etc etc).

Some of those permits expire or are no longer valid when not exposed to the data on a daily basis. Yet the classification requirement is still there, so the threat still exists long after the "daily access" is removed.

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