AA County Gun Violence Task Force: Meeting Update

Not_an_outlaw · Jun 21, 2019

One statement made at the meeting was that many of the things other jurisdictions do, Anne Arundel already does.

Reminds me of a task force my wife participated. All these snotty business people thought the education system sucked and needed repair. Once they got into it, there wasn't much they could really do, without adding significant funding. That funding would have come partially from the boviating business leaders. It quietly disbanded.

BeoBill · Jun 21, 2019

ironpony said:
...There are some sitting in the room with him! and sure enough, Pittman put them on this board. Have they received said help? PTSD on the board, doesn't seem like a good way to get helpful data for the county. Knee jerk reactions maybe. #wtfpittman

Beat me to it! I was going to suggest that PTSD from shooting trauma should be disqualifying for a position on the board, especially the Vice Chair slots. That situation should be exploited in the "friendly" media. There is NO WAY for the TF to be unbiased with that kind of "leadership."

Bob A · Jun 21, 2019

"Violence Task Force" - All for it.
"Gun Violence Task Force" - Fraudulent misdirection.

This TF needs to be asked exactly why their study is so very narrowly focused. . . . And keep asking until a rational response is received.

hillbilly grandpa · Jun 21, 2019

Bob A said:
"Violence Task Force" - All for it.
"Gun Violence Task Force" - Fraudulent misdirection.

This TF needs to be asked exactly why their study is so very narrowly focused. . . . And keep asking until a rational response is received.

Great. Just follow the directions as articulated, and submit your comments in writing. As often as you'd like.

MigraineMan · Jun 21, 2019

Bob A said:
"Gun Violence Task Force" - Fraudulent misdirection.

That's "Agenda-Driven misdirection", thankyouverymuch.

- Steuart Pittman

(not an actual quote ...)

BeoBill · Jun 21, 2019

Timely Article

Note To Anti-Gun Media: ‘Victims’ Not Above Criticism
https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2019/06/21/note-anti-gun-media-victims-not-criticism/

:innocent0

dblas · Jun 21, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
My group did basically nothing. They had no focus and are meeting on July 11 via teleconference.

Are they going to make that teleconference public, in accordance with the Open Meetings Act??

hodgepodge · Jun 21, 2019

dblas said:
Are they going to make that teleconference public, in accordance with the Open Meetings Act??

Which subgroup is this? We will ask Ms. Purcell about this.

teratos · Jun 22, 2019

Not_an_outlaw said:
My group did basically nothing. They had no focus and are meeting on July 11 via teleconference.

dblas said:
Are they going to make that teleconference public, in accordance with the Open Meetings Act??

hodgepodge said:
Which subgroup is this? We will ask Ms. Purcell about this.

They need to be held to this task, or formal complaints need to be filed.

dblas · Jun 22, 2019

hodgepodge said:
Which subgroup is this? We will ask Ms. Purcell about this.

Public Education Messaging

BeoBill · Jun 22, 2019

dblas said:
Public Education Messaging

Decoded = Propaganda Bureau.

hodgepodge · Jun 23, 2019

Ms. Purcell:
It was discussed at the 20 June meeting of the County's Gun Violence Task Force that one of the sub-groups, Public Education/Messaging, was preparing to hold a meeting on 11 July that would be closed to the public.

The Attorney General list 14 exceptions to Maryland's Open Meeting law. These include personnel matters, privacy or reputation of an individual with respect to a matter that is not related to public business, real property acquisition, legal advice, and ten other exceptions. A desire to exclude the public or the convenience of the government body are not permitted exceptions.

Please contact the Task Force Chair, the Sub-Group Chair, and the other Task Force members to ensure that any such meeting is publicly announced and open to the public.

Thank you.

hodgepodge
Arnold, MD

Please feel free to draft your own note to expurc99@aacounty.org

chilipeppermaniac · Jun 23, 2019

hodgepodge said:
Ms. Purcell:
It was discussed at the 20 June meeting of the County's Gun Violence Task Force that one of the sub-groups, Public Education/Messaging, was preparing to hold a meeting on 11 July that would be closed to the public.

The Attorney General list 14 exceptions to Maryland's Open Meeting law. These include personnel matters, privacy or reputation of an individual with respect to a matter that is not related to public business, real property acquisition, legal advice, and ten other exceptions. A desire to exclude the public or the convenience of the government body are not permitted exceptions.

Please contact the Task Force Chair, the Sub-Group Chair, and the other Task Force members to ensure that any such meeting is publicly announced and open to the public.

Thank you.

hodgepodge
Arnold, MD

Please feel free to draft your own note to expurc99@aacounty.org

And I might add after reading through the events leading up to this last meeting, make sure to post the REAL location of said meetings.

hodgepodge · Jun 24, 2019

Ms. Purcell answered:

Mr. hodgepodge:

I double checked with our Office of Law to be sure I am interpreting the Maryland Open Meetings Act correctly.

There are two reasons that the Public Education/Messaging, or any, subcommittee meeting is not required to be a public meeting under the Maryland Open Meetings Act.

First, the subcommittee would be subject to the Open Meetings Act if is a "public body" within the meaning of the Act. A "public body" is created by law, constitution, executive order, the County Executive, or a department head. The subcommittee was created through a process instigated by the Task Force, and, therefore, it is not a public body and is not subject to the Open Meetings Act.

Second, even if the subcommittee is not a public body in and of itself, it would be subject to the Open Meetings Act if it represented a quorum of the Task Force. A quorum is a majority of the Task Force members, or 18 members in this case. Because the subcommittee has fewer than 18 members, there is no quorum of the Task Force, and, therefore, the meetings of the subcommittee are not subject to the Open Meetings Act.

In fact, I found out that the second half of our meeting last week (when we broke into subcommittees) could have been closed to the public. However, we have no intention of doing that. We are happy to have public observation of any subcommittee work that occurs during the full Task Force meetings.

I hope that helps to clarify things.

Well, that certainly helps. "We're public except when we're not. We are totally open except when we're not. Go away, peasants. We're not coming for your guns. Just turn them in."

MigraineMan · Jun 24, 2019

hodgepodge said:
First, the subcommittee would be subject to the Open Meetings Act if is a "public body" within the meaning of the Act. A "public body" is created by law, constitution, executive order, the County Executive, or a department head. The subcommittee was created through a process instigated by the Task Force, and, therefore, it is not a public body and is not subject to the Open Meetings Act.

Wait, what?

The Tax Force, created by an executive order (PDF) from the County Executive, and which *is* subject to the Open Meetings Act, could simply declare (itself minus one token member) a "subcommittee" by procedural fiat and magically become exempt?

hodgepodge · Jun 24, 2019

MigraineMan said:
Wait, what?

The Tax Force, created by an executive order (PDF) from the County Executive, and which *is* subject to the Open Meetings Act, could simply declare (itself minus one token member) a "subcommittee" by procedural fiat and magically become exempt?

It's even better. They vote to declare themselves a Committee of the Whole and everybody stays.

Matlack · Jun 24, 2019

You should probably ask for the legal opinion she is referring to in writing. Things sometimes change when asked for in writing.

Rab1515 · Jun 24, 2019

hodgepodge said:
Ms. Purcell answered:

Mr. hodgepodge:

I double checked with our Office of Law to be sure I am interpreting the Maryland Open Meetings Act correctly.

There are two reasons that the Public Education/Messaging, or any, subcommittee meeting is not required to be a public meeting under the Maryland Open Meetings Act.

First, the subcommittee would be subject to the Open Meetings Act if is a "public body" within the meaning of the Act. A "public body" is created by law, constitution, executive order, the County Executive, or a department head. The subcommittee was created through a process instigated by the Task Force, and, therefore, it is not a public body and is not subject to the Open Meetings Act.

Second, even if the subcommittee is not a public body in and of itself, it would be subject to the Open Meetings Act if it represented a quorum of the Task Force. A quorum is a majority of the Task Force members, or 18 members in this case. Because the subcommittee has fewer than 18 members, there is no quorum of the Task Force, and, therefore, the meetings of the subcommittee are not subject to the Open Meetings Act.

In fact, I found out that the second half of our meeting last week (when we broke into subcommittees) could have been closed to the public. However, we have no intention of doing that. We are happy to have public observation of any subcommittee work that occurs during the full Task Force meetings.

I hope that helps to clarify things.

Well, that certainly helps. "We're public except when we're not. We are totally open except when we're not. Go away, peasants. We're not coming for your guns. Just turn them in."

From good ol' Froshy.

http://www.marylandattorneygeneral.gov/OpenGov Documents/Openmeetings/OMA_FAQ.pdf

Finally, for state entities only, a multimember entity is a “public body” if its members are
appointed by a public body whose members were appointed by the Governor or by an
official subject to that appointing entity’s policy direction.

The subcommittees are public bodies in an of themselves.

if its not a "state entity":

Second, a multimember entity is a “public body” if its members were appointed by the
Governor, or by a local government’s chief executive authority, or by someone subject to
the executive’s policy direction —but only when at least two members are not employed
by the State or local government in question. For example, a citizen task force appointed
by the Governor or a state department head will be a “public body” under this definition.
A gathering of agency employees will not be a “public body”.

The AA task force is a public entity, therefore any one appointed by it must be one as well.

aaaaaaand heres the actual law

(2) “Public body” includes:
(i) any multimember board, commission, or committee appointed by the Governor
or the chief executive authority of a political subdivision of the State, or
appointed by an official who is subject to the policy direction of the Governor
or chief executive authority of the political subdivision, if the entity includes in
its membership at least two individuals not employed by the State or the
political subdivision;
(ii) any multimember board, commission, or committee that:
1. is appointed by:
A. an entity in the Executive Branch of the State government, the members
of which are appointed by the Governor, and that otherwise meets the
definition of a public body under this subsection; or
B. an official who is subject to the policy direction of an entity described in
item A of this item; and
2. includes in its membership at least two individuals who are not members of
the appointing entity or employed by the State; and
(iii) The Maryland School for the Blind

Not_an_outlaw · Jun 24, 2019

Wow, I get the moms are jumping for joy. They can now keep us out of their.pajama meeting. This would be good to challenge and then get it shut down. Is anyone getting paid? Or travel expenses reimbursement?

BeoBill · Jun 24, 2019

AA County Gun Violence Task Force: Meeting Update

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

Crank in the Third Row

όυ φροντισ

Active Member

Defenestration Specialist

Crank in the Third Row

Past President, MSI

Senior Member (Gold)

My hair is amazing

Past President, MSI

Crank in the Third Row

Senior Member (Gold)

Ultimate Member

Senior Member (Gold)

Defenestration Specialist

Senior Member (Gold)

Scribe

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Crank in the Third Row

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics