Delegate Dumais working on bill to ban 80% firearms

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    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,530
    Columbia
    Yeah, I had some respect once upon a time too, until he wrote, "Show the respect due." If anybody has to ask for respect, well...................



    Then, along came the opinion in his clamored for MSI/Brockman v. Hogan litigation. Maybe one needs to be an attorney to understand the intricacies of why this result is so bad and why the case itself was NOT the right one to litigate. Heck, Art3, a serious PP advocate, has not even found the time to read the opinion, which came down in the middle of November 2018. Meanwhile, little old me went ahead and read it. What happens to us in Maryland IF SCOTUS does not reverse this opinion for 50+ years, or ever? Meanwhile, ATF has banned bumpstocks too across the nation. Who knows, maybe this will head right to SCOTUS after the 4th Circuit, SCOTUS will overturn it, the ATF's position will be overturned next, and I will be eating humble pie with a smile on my face. Doubtful, but possible. Kind of like how Kolbe was actually a winner at the 4th Circuit for a brief moment, and I told my wife about it with a smile on my face. Of course, her response was, "So, we didn't really have to buy all those guns in 2013?" Of course, the en banc review of Kolbe made my smile go away and justified the 2013 purchases. SCOTUS refused to grant cert on that one.



    As far as MSI being a plaintiff in the Brockman matter, that was a bad move too. Absolutely no reason for it. It brought up an issue of standing for MSI and it also put a corporate entity front and center in the litigation. Read up on how Heller was conducted:



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller



    Hear, Hear!!!!!!!



    There, There!!!!!!!!!



    I really hope you guys change some minds with the scofflaw shirts in Annapolis. Again, doubtful, but possible.



    Can one really say in the same breath, "I am a law abiding gun owner that will not comply/abide with any more gun control laws?" Can one really say that?



    I know I said it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Yes. That can absolutely be said. The law is unconstitutional on it's face, and I can ignore it as though it was never in existence.

    I am a law abiding citizen today. Period. Never even had an overdue library book. If they force my hand by continuing to erode my God given liberties, I will give up saying that and will brand myself an outlaw. If that's the way the state wants it... so be it. My line has been drawn. This far and no fruther.
     

    Rab1515

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 29, 2014
    2,081
    Calvert
    Yeah, I am making a fool of myself alright, according to you. Once it results in name calling, the victor is already know,

    I have a copy of the complaint drafted by Hansel. It is on MSI's website for those that do not have a copy. First two plaintiffs are MSI followed by you. Which plaintiff is a poor minority in a down trodden city that this law is being oppressive to. Sadly, I doubt the case will have the effect of Heller, but we shall see. Why let MSI put its name first instead of yours? lol

    Your lack of respect for and insults to those that put their names and reputations on the line is telling. Not one more inch MEANS not one more inch.
     

    BeoBill

    Crank in the Third Row
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 3, 2013
    27,058
    南馬里蘭州鮑伊
    I am a law abiding citizen today. Period. Never even had an overdue library book. If they force my hand by continuing to erode my God given liberties, I will give up saying that and will brand myself an outlaw. If that's the way the state wants it... so be it. My line has been drawn. This far and no fruther.

    One thing these petty tyrants forget:

    You NEVER put someone in the position where they think they have nothing left to lose.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    One thing these petty tyrants forget:

    You NEVER put someone in the position where they think they have nothing left to lose.

    You aren't there yet. Somebody that has nothing left to lose is in pretty dire straights. Most of us posting on this chatboard, sitting behind a computer or smartphone and an internet connection, have a lot to lose. Guessing a lot of us have a lot of things we would like to live for. Would you be happy if you were struck down dead today by a heart attack? If so, then you have absolutely nothing left to live for. If the thought of dying today from a heart attack irks you, then you have something to live for.

    The question ends up being, are you ready to give up your freedom or your life for your principles?
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Your lack of respect for and insults to those that put their names and reputations on the line is telling. Not one more inch MEANS not one more inch.

    Trust me, the lack of respect and insults has been going both ways for almost a year now. Which came first, the chicken or the egg.

    I hear you, not one more INCH means not one more inch, yet the state is taking it away by the foot, soon to be by the football field.

    Just wondering, do you have an HQL? If so, what was that process like?
     

    Rab1515

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 29, 2014
    2,081
    Calvert
    Trust me, the lack of respect and insults has been going both ways for almost a year now. Which came first, the chicken or the egg.

    I hear you, not one more INCH means not one more inch, yet the state is taking it away by the foot, soon to be by the football field.

    Just wondering, do you have an HQL? If so, what was that process like?

    Unlike most here, I did not have the option to buy anything pre-ban, because no one cared enough to fight the under 21 age restriction on handguns for half a century.

    I guess some citizens really are more equal than others.
     

    Rab1515

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 29, 2014
    2,081
    Calvert
    Ah, great deflection. Did you, or did you not, get the HQL? If you did, how onerous was it?

    I did get the HQL, because I thought that was a better option than getting a fake ID to buy a handgun before the ban. Should I also give up my wear & carry permit because I can't constitutionally carry?

    I'm not sure what you're getting at with asking how difficult it was to get the HQL. It's much more of an inconvenience for some than for others, and downright impossible for many.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    I did get the HQL, because I thought that was a better option than getting a fake ID to buy a handgun before the ban. Should I also give up my wear & carry permit because I can't constitutionally carry?

    I'm not sure what you're getting at with asking how difficult it was to get the HQL. It's much more of an inconvenience for some than for others, and downright impossible for many.

    I think you knew where I was going with this. So, not one more inch applies for you right now, but not back in 2013 or whenever you wanted to get a handgun at age 21. If it was "not one more inch, means not one more inch" after 2013, then you would have bought an 80% handgun frame, built it out, and never applied for the HQL. Then, even if the ghost gun bill were to pass, you would not destroy or turn in your ghost handgun.

    Trust me, I know where you are coming from. I was 14 when FOPA was passed in 1986 that outlawed the manufacture of new machine guns for civilian purchase. I am outraged by that bill. However, I am not manufacturing machine guns against the law in my basement. Heck, a guy was just arrested in Mount Airy for possessing illegal machine guns on him and he was ridiculed pretty good right here on this board.

    The onerous question was just a camouflage question.

    So, not one more inch differs by person. Some of us refused to get the HQL and went the 80% route instead.

    We all have a line in the sand we are willing to draw, and for some of us it changes with a wife and kids, when the wife dies and the kids are grown up, etc. Things are different for a 45 year old with a wife and 4 kids to take care of versus a 21 year old with fewer responsibilities and more time on his/her hands, versus an 80 year old that just no longer cares about going to prison or dying, or has more time on his/her hands to fight this stuff.

    For me, I will comply as long as I am in this state. When I am finally fed up as can be, I will move to a way more friendly state that is more friendly in a lot of ways to its citizens. I don't need a nanny state that has several hands in my pockets and one up my kazoo. Who knows, the way things are going, I might eventually have to retire in Argentina and run a dove hunting outfitter business.
     

    MrsRab1515

    Active Member
    Nov 27, 2017
    116
    All over the dang state
    I think you knew where I was going with this. So, not one more inch applies for you right now, but not back in 2013 or whenever you wanted to get a handgun at age 21. If it was "not one more inch, means not one more inch" after 2013, then you would have bought an 80% handgun frame, built it out, and never applied for the HQL. Then, even if the ghost gun bill were to pass, you would not destroy or turn in your ghost handgun.

    Trust me, I know where you are coming from. I was 14 when FOPA was passed in 1986 that outlawed the manufacture of new machine guns for civilian purchase. I am outraged by that bill. However, I am not manufacturing machine guns against the law in my basement. Heck, a guy was just arrested in Mount Airy for possessing illegal machine guns on him and he was ridiculed pretty good right here on this board.

    The onerous question was just a camouflage question.

    So, not one more inch differs by person. Some of us refused to get the HQL and went the 80% route instead.

    We all have a line in the sand we are willing to draw, and for some of us it changes with a wife and kids, when the wife dies and the kids are grown up, etc. Things are different for a 45 year old with a wife and 4 kids to take care of versus a 21 year old with fewer responsibilities and more time on his/her hands, versus an 80 year old that just no longer cares about going to prison or dying, or has more time on his/her hands to fight this stuff.

    For me, I will comply as long as I am in this state. When I am finally fed up as can be, I will move to a way more friendly state that is more friendly in a lot of ways to its citizens. I don't need a nanny state that has several hands in my pockets and one up my kazoo. Who knows, the way things are going, I might eventually have to retire in Argentina and run a dove hunting outfitter business.

    If you took note of which of your comments he was responding to at the beginning of this exchange, you'd realize he was talking about the bump stock suit, not refusing to comply with laws currently in the works. Possessing an HQL has nothing to do with believing the bump stock suit is worthwhile. Talking past each other gets us nowhere.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    If you took note of which of your comments he was responding to at the beginning of this exchange, you'd realize he was talking about the bump stock suit, not refusing to comply with laws currently in the works. Possessing an HQL has nothing to do with believing the bump stock suit is worthwhile. Talking past each other gets us nowhere.

    Yeah, I took note of it. Why do you think I asked the question about the HQL? He made it seem as though I do not understand "Not another inch", when I understand it very well. His "not another inch" comes in 2019. Others came before that, and others will come after that. Again, he wants to make it look like I do not understand "not another inch".

    Now, what happens when there are more laws passed than money available to fight them effectively? "Not another inch" sounds wonderful, but in battle it can result in 300 Spartan deaths giving others just enough time to flee to another state. Not Another Inch sounds about as good as We Will Not Comply. Sheriffs in Carroll County and other counties back in 2013 said they would not enforce the 2013 laws except in special circumstances.

    I tend to think about reality, not sound bites and feel good phrases.

    You guys have children? You alright with both of you getting arrested for items in the house that are illegal and for which there is not a clear case for possession? You buying up bumpstocks dirt cheap and stocking up on binary triggers? Might as well build a machine gun while you are at it.

    Is your line in the sand the same as his?

    We can wax philosophical all night and day long, and husband and wife can try their best to make me sound like a moron and appear uneducated. It will be a fun dance.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,156
    Mt Airy
    We can wax philosophical all night and day long, and husband and wife can try their best to make me sound like a moron and appear uneducated. It will be a fun dance.

    Or, how about you stop this petty bickering that is taking up bandwidth from the people who are in Annapolis trying to save our gun rights from eroding in to nothing? It's hard enough keeping up with the three threads on today's hearings while you're sitting in that room listening to testimonies, and to have to weed through this bull sh!t is just obnoxious. Knock it the f*ck off, at least for today.

    Fabs I know you like to contribute to the cause in other ways other than appearing in Annapolis, but really, if you have so much time today (of all days) that you can craft ALL these lengthy responses, than you really have more time than you think.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Or, how about you stop this petty bickering that is taking up bandwidth from the people who are in Annapolis trying to save our gun rights from eroding in to nothing? It's hard enough keeping up with the three threads on today's hearings while you're sitting in that room listening to testimonies, and to have to weed through this bull sh!t is just obnoxious. Knock it the f*ck off, at least for today.

    Fabs I know you like to contribute to the cause in other ways other than appearing in Annapolis, but really, if you have so much time today (of all days) that you can craft ALL these lengthy responses, than you really have more time than you think.

    I cannot let this sit and have you think that cussing at me is going to work. Do you really think that cussing at me is going to make me say "Righteo"? Might as well have asked me to "Show the respect due".

    Stop responding and there will be nothing for me to respond to other than myself, and I don't think I am at that point yet mentally that I am talking to myself.

    Plus, how could any update to this thread possibly help you with your testimony regarding this bill. Either you are prepared by now, or you aren't, as far as your testimony is concerned. The only reason you would be looking at this thread is if you are bored. Heck, this thread hasn't even been useful for written testimony.

    FYI - there hasn't been an update in this 80% thread for quite a while that addresses the 80% issue. Hasn't even been anything posted to this thread for 3 hours now.

    Did your testimony tonight change their minds? Was it vastly different than all the others before you that testified?

    Personally, I don't think hordes of people testifying incoherently is going to change anybody's mind. Best to spend the day working and donating that money to MSRPA, letting the heavy hitters testify coherently, and then signing a mile long petition supporting said testimony.

    Just spit balling here. Imagine how much money could be donated to the litigation cause if all 2,000+ people worked an additional 16 hours instead of testifying.

    Let's go with $10 an hour as an average wage earned, which is probably way less than the average. 2,000 * 16 * $10 = $320,000. Does any Maryland 2A organization receive that much money in a year? How much litigation could that buy? Probably a lot! Ah, forgot about the income tax bite. Oh well, still a lot of money.
     

    Vetted84

    Active Member
    Nov 8, 2016
    646
    Personally, I don't think hordes of people testifying incoherently is going to change anybody's mind.

    After decades of watching the gun control debacle unfold in the MGA, I agree with your sentiment.

    The MGA "plays" the pro gun folks year in and year out.

    They propose half a dozen bills or so each year knowing they may have to walk a couple back. Doesn't matter to them. It gives the pros something feel good about and allow them to brag to there followers how they prevented things from being worse. The MGA just proposes the same bills plus a few new ones the following year. Eventually they know they will get everything they want.

    Pretty much why the ladies in red need so few to show up. They have the MGA in one back pocket and Hogan in the other.
     
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