Giving an employee permission to carry/access to handgun?

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  • sgt23preston

    USMC LLA. NRA Life Member
    May 19, 2011
    3,994
    Perry Hall
    Everybody who works in a gun store or indoor gun range open carries all the time...
     

    BigSteve57

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 14, 2011
    3,245
    As an employer, I would require NRA Basic Pistol, PPITH, PPOTH, Advanced Pistol and definitely MAG-40 (lawful use of force). Might also include some escalation of force, empty hand and retail loss prevention training.

    I would reimburse the employee's costs upon successful completion.

    For annual recert, I would come as close to imitating LEO recertification as I could. MAG has students shoot the FBI Course in half the time at a greater distance.

    This gives you the opportunity to defend against a negligence claim in court that your armed supervisory employees are trained to even higher standards.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Just for the heck of it I took a small survey of the various courses and came up with the following investment of time and money for the gun related courses you suggested. The numbers are taken from various websites advertising the specific courses, YMMV.
     

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    CypherPunk

    Opinions Are My Own
    Apr 6, 2012
    3,907
    Out of curiosity, what are the costs of getting arrested, criminally charged, attorney, bail, forfeiture of firearm a civil trial, a criminal record, and being prohibited for the rest of one's life?


    What's the cost of a Sig Legion, a few holsters and a bunch of accessories?
     

    BigSteve57

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 14, 2011
    3,245
    Out of curiosity, what are the costs of getting arrested, criminally charged, attorney, bail, forfeiture of firearm a civil trial, a criminal record, and being prohibited for the rest of one's life?


    What's the cost of a Sig Legion, a few holsters and a bunch of accessories?
    My guess would be on the order of 10X-20X the high number I came up with, perhaps more.

    I wasn't trying to imply the value of the training because it varies for everyone. All I was just trying to show was a guesstimate of the costs both in time and $. Also, these courses aren't scheduled every day so it might take someone until the end of the year to get all the certs.

    I think the training would be great to have in any event.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    I'm a firm believer in useful skills, and important knowledge, especially the MAG 40. So much so that MAG 40 render most in the intermeadate courses suggested superfluous.


    BUT , a minimum requirement as listed above is a defacto way of saying no guns for employees. Your bussiness, your rules, but that's a pretty emphatic position.
     

    Kman

    Blah, blah, blah
    Dec 23, 2010
    11,987
    Eastern shore
    Think about corporate and personal assets with this.

    I support the right to carry, but if an altercation occurs, you/your business will be the subject of suit(s).
    Additionally, most commercial insurers do not want to insure risks with firearms on the premises, let alone someone carrying.

    Didn't mean to b a fly in the ointment.
     

    tom b

    Active Member
    Oct 2, 2011
    374
    Think about corporate and personal assets with this.

    I support the right to carry, but if an altercation occurs, you/your business will be the subject of suit(s).
    Additionally, most commercial insurers do not want to insure risks with firearms on the premises, let alone someone carrying.

    Didn't mean to b a fly in the ointment.

    Not once during 38 insurance renewals has a firearm question come up for me. Are you in the insurance business?
     

    Kman

    Blah, blah, blah
    Dec 23, 2010
    11,987
    Eastern shore
    Not once during 38 insurance renewals has a firearm question come up for me. Are you in the insurance business?

    28 years.

    You might have a good reasonable agent who answers "no" for you on the applications or the premium doesn't reach a threshold where account underwriters pry into the risk.

    I'm not saying insurers don't insure businesses with firearms on site...I'm saying they most likely don't know about it.
     

    Kman

    Blah, blah, blah
    Dec 23, 2010
    11,987
    Eastern shore
    I wouldn't call it prohibited.

    Insurance carriers review applications from producers.
    Most common apps I ever see have the question re firearms. Underwriter reviews ask it and risk managers are supposed to find out.

    Insurance companies can't tell you not to, they just will not accept new policies or non renew existing ones.

    They don't understand and don't want the liability.
     

    Kman

    Blah, blah, blah
    Dec 23, 2010
    11,987
    Eastern shore
    I guess you could say that.

    Not aware of exclusions denying coverage or defense for gun involved suit.

    Pretty sure you would be dropped like 3rd period French after the fact and all other insurers would be able to pull up the loss history and legal trail.

    Correction: I'm tired. It doesn't happen much, but I think coverage could be denied for the insured answering falsely in application for coverage. I haven't heard of it happening much for other losses, so probably not likely for this either. Carriers are good at CYA.
     

    tom b

    Active Member
    Oct 2, 2011
    374
    28 years.

    You might have a good reasonable agent who answers "no" for you on the applications or the premium doesn't reach a threshold where account underwriters pry into the risk.

    I'm not saying insurers don't insure businesses with firearms on site...I'm saying they most likely don't know about it.

    Our agents & brokers don't complete any of our applications. My premiums are +7 figures yearly. I've worked with the largest insures and bonding companies and have never encountered any firearm questions.

    Perhaps the questions are triggered for certain industries?
     

    Kman

    Blah, blah, blah
    Dec 23, 2010
    11,987
    Eastern shore
    Don't know.

    I deal with lines for primarily 2 carriers.
    I'll see accounts typically $50k to $250k.

    Both app forms I review have the question of firearms on premises.
    It's always answered N, so I don't question it.
    Makes it difficult when I visit accounts and see the shotgun in the office or the owner obviously carrying.
     

    tom b

    Active Member
    Oct 2, 2011
    374
    Don't know.

    I deal with lines for primarily 2 carriers.
    I'll see accounts typically $50k to $250k.

    Both app forms I review have the question of firearms on premises.
    It's always answered N, so I don't question it.
    Makes it difficult when I visit accounts and see the shotgun in the office or the owner obviously carrying.

    Got it, thanks.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,985
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Don't know.

    I deal with lines for primarily 2 carriers.
    I'll see accounts typically $50k to $250k.

    Both app forms I review have the question of firearms on premises.
    It's always answered N, so I don't question it.
    Makes it difficult when I visit accounts and see the shotgun in the office or the owner obviously carrying.



    Who typically fills out the app forms, the insured or their agents? I've been with the same company since I started in business and I don't remember filling out an application.

    I just had an insurance inspection of my shop last week and the nice lady either didn't notice or didn't care that I had the green circle "firearms welcome" sticker on the front door. No shotties in the office but I was carrying.
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    i've handled insurance for my various employers over the past 20+ years and never saw any reference to firearms.

    stoveman, just like with credit apps, if you're not filling them out, you are surely signing them and should be thoroughly reading them prior to signing.
     

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